Old Thrive vs "New" Thrive

Lately I have seen discussion about whether to change the setting, purpose and structure of the game. Some users want to take the steps tribes, industry, civilization and space to make the game a simple simulation of a creature on a planet and stop. The reason is that creating a game like that is too complicated, but I do not think a good reason. I prefer to wait even 3 years older but have a really nice game with many variations, instead of seeing a repetitive game since the variations are very inferior removing 4 stages (stages which are specifically variants more .. politics, religion, society .. ..)

I obviously do not agree, and am convinced that the original progretto Thrive, or the evolution of species, but also the evolution of civilization can lead, after a long journey, the colonization of other worlds. Let's put to the vote.

The entire Thrive idea is ambitious. My idea simplyfies that ambition, but I'm not saying you have to throw like four stages away. I think an evolution simulator where you get to play as the species is enough, but I don't think you should get rid of your ideas. I mean, you have worked hard on those civilization stages.

Take longer and make a better game, I say.

For those saying we cut out sapience - why? It wont make development any quicker, it will just mean we will stop sooner, with fewer features.
Why not include all the features pre-sapience, then once that's done (and this is the clever bit) we move on to develop post-sapience! That way, we get all the features of Thrive without sapience, in the same amount of time, but then have the rest of Thrive too. Genius? No. It's simply simple.

@Grep: So... Your idea is we do what were going to do anyway, then...?

The problem of thrive is that its naturally hard to do, cutting it or not. Thinking it twice we can keep on the old idea of focusing on one stage, but cutting the "harder-to-implement" parts of the later stages.

We can keep all the thrive's glory, making it easier to accomplish. Some wisdom through experience:

easy project = more goals accomplished and less frustation, but poor results
hard project = less goals accomplished and more frustation, but great results

life tells me that a medium point is always the best point: You can get some results with some frustation with the right difficculty.

long story short: I can't vote since my idea doesn't entirely cut or keeps, sorry...

I was merely sugessting a way to make the game faster to make and not such a pressure on our few proggramers. It's my opinion, not a idea to change the game.

The game is released as it goes along. As Uteen said, the creature stage will be released at the same time whether we cut out the later stages or not. Cutting out the later stages won't decrease the work our coders have to do either; they still do the same amount of coding per hour regardless.

If "new Thrive" means realistic goals with a focused development and "old Thrive" means everybody that comes along gets their idea thrown into the game that over time approaches the largest, least organized thing in history, then "new Thrive". It's not that cutting later stages saves the programmers' time, it's that with so much focus on the later stages the earlier stages - the ones that should be released to keep the public excited - are not focused. There was a great post by rkg last I think September that I found where he said this, and the thread turned into a serious discussion of what should go into the cell stage - which is the kind of focus that I feel this project needs to get off of the ground.

This leads me to my biggest point. Right now, it doesn't feel like there's a great deal of difference between "developers" and "everyone else". The open community is awesome, but it seems like there needs to be a seperate dev-only forum to actually discuss implementing and finalizing ideas rather than talk about whether or not you can evolve underwater for the 50th time. The discussion about how, for instance, space will be generated is frankly irrelevent right now. If everyone wants the cell stage completed to present on the ModDB page, and generate interest in the game, then there needs to be a core team of developers that discuss among themselves. The "20 posts" thing is a good start, but it still invites in every 12 year old to offer their weird-Belgium suggestions as to things that have no bearing at this point in development.

guitar999111 wrote:

If "new Thrive" means realistic goals with a focused development and "old Thrive" means everybody that comes along gets their idea thrown into the game that over time approaches the largest, least organized thing in history, then "new Thrive". It's not that cutting later stages saves the programmers' time, it's that with so much focus on the later stages the earlier stages - the ones that should be released to keep the public excited - are not focused. There was a great post by rkg last I think September that I found where he said this, and the thread turned into a serious discussion of what should go into the cell stage - which is the kind of focus that I feel this project needs to get off of the ground.

This leads me to my biggest point. Right now, it doesn't feel like there's a great deal of difference between "developers" and "everyone else". The open community is awesome, but it seems like there needs to be a seperate dev-only forum to actually discuss implementing and finalizing ideas rather than talk about whether or not you can evolve underwater for the 50th time. The discussion about how, for instance, space will be generated is frankly irrelevent right now. If everyone wants the cell stage completed to present on the ModDB page, and generate interest in the game, then there needs to be a core team of developers that discuss among themselves. The "20 posts" thing is a good start, but it still invites in every 12 year old to offer their weird-Belgium suggestions as to things that have no bearing at this point in development.

Totally agreed with every belgian word you said. I specially second the idea of two clearly separated boards, a suggestion one with everything "fan made" and another with all the current developing discussions. For instance I'm trying to push this forward doing focused concepts for microbial stage an uploading them on the "concept art" thread, but my overall feeling is that since everything (artistically speaking) is so vagely defined, one or two specific artworks go unnoticed and the discussion of specific parts an/or procedures for doing them doesn't ever take place.

I'm not asking for criticism on every image I post the very day it's posted, but my arachnid sense tells me that time will pass and the discussion will never take place. Specifically, I'm trying to mark the path for other people to keep investigating and discussing this concrete stage of the game, not trying to cover my shoulders in flowers by other's criticism...

getting back to the "separate boards" idea... anyone supports this idea too?

uverion wrote:

guitar999111 wrote:

If "new Thrive" means realistic goals with a focused development and "old Thrive" means everybody that comes along gets their idea thrown into the game that over time approaches the largest, least organized thing in history, then "new Thrive". It's not that cutting later stages saves the programmers' time, it's that with so much focus on the later stages the earlier stages - the ones that should be released to keep the public excited - are not focused. There was a great post by rkg last I think September that I found where he said this, and the thread turned into a serious discussion of what should go into the cell stage - which is the kind of focus that I feel this project needs to get off of the ground.

This leads me to my biggest point. Right now, it doesn't feel like there's a great deal of difference between "developers" and "everyone else". The open community is awesome, but it seems like there needs to be a seperate dev-only forum to actually discuss implementing and finalizing ideas rather than talk about whether or not you can evolve underwater for the 50th time. The discussion about how, for instance, space will be generated is frankly irrelevent right now. If everyone wants the cell stage completed to present on the ModDB page, and generate interest in the game, then there needs to be a core team of developers that discuss among themselves. The "20 posts" thing is a good start, but it still invites in every 12 year old to offer their weird-Belgium suggestions as to things that have no bearing at this point in development.

Totally agreed with every belgian word you said. I specially second the idea of two clearly separated boards, a suggestion one with everything "fan made" and another with all the current developing discussions. For instance I'm trying to push this forward doing focused concepts for microbial stage an uploading them on the "concept art" thread, but my overall feeling is that since everything (artistically speaking) is so vagely defined, one or two specific artworks go unnoticed and the discussion of specific parts an/or procedures for doing them doesn't ever take place.

I'm not asking for criticism on every image I post the very day it's posted, but my arachnid sense tells me that time will pass and the discussion will never take place. Specifically, I'm trying to mark the path for other people to keep investigating and discussing this concrete stage of the game, not trying to cover my shoulders in flowers by other's criticism...

getting back to the "separate boards" idea... anyone supports this idea too?

i support the separated boards, but i dont support a faster project, i want this made to its completion......just saying....

i support the separated boards, but i dont support a faster project, i want this made to its completion......just saying....[/quote]


Yes, anyone think it's a good idea to list what we still have to get done with the cell stage, then deal with those, then make one for aware stage and so on?

i do....

Well, i'm not completely sure all the problems yet, does anyone?

zippybomb wrote:

Yes, anyone think it's a good idea to list what we still have to get done with the cell stage, then deal with those, then make one for aware stage and so on?

It will be a good starting point. We should start to point things that we consider essential for the first stage, discuss which of them are feasible or not with our actual staff state and start to put them priorities.

Even better, a standalone thread with all the confirmed "points" at the top, and the discussion going on at the bottom. Once we are happy with all the points we close the submission and start setting priorities. Then we close all this and stick it at the very top of the stage subforum.

What do the boards think?

uverion wrote:

zippybomb wrote:

Yes, anyone think it's a good idea to list what we still have to get done with the cell stage, then deal with those, then make one for aware stage and so on?

It will be a good starting point. We should start to point things that we consider essential for the first stage, discuss which of them are feasible or not with our actual staff state and start to put them priorities.

Even better, a standalone thread with all the confirmed "points" at the top, and the discussion going on at the bottom. Once we are happy with all the points we close the submission and start setting priorities. Then we close all this and stick it at the very top of the stage subforum.

What do the boards think?

I've already started working on the thread you posted.

Guys, our focus right now is on cells. Then our focus will be on multicellular, if we ever get there, our focus will shift to technology.
I think it's conceivable not that we can release in chapters- unicellular, multicellular, aware, etc, where people can transfer an organism from one chapter to the next (as with characters in Mass Effect). Forget seamless transitions, it's just going to make the game messy as an end product. Hopefully this will make sense to you guys, and I'm sure Roadkilll will be happy to share his thoughts on it.

Let me get this right scio, we are going to release Thrive as "separate" chapters as for example telltale games', and connect them with some kind of character transfer?

As for focus on cell stage, i've just opened a thread to discuss concrete points of the stage. hope you like the idea

https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t823-developing-guide-to-microbial-stage#16217

uverion wrote:

Let me get this right scio, we are going to release Thrive as "separate" chapters as for example telltale games', and connect them with some kind of character transfer?

As for focus on cell stage, i've just opened a thread to discuss concrete points of the stage. hope you like the idea

https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t823-developing-guide-to-microbial-stage#16217

I'm thinking it might be a good idea. That allows us to focus each stage individually, making programming easier and the game simpler.

~sciocont wrote:

Guys, our focus right now is on cells. Then our focus will be on multicellular, if we ever get there, our focus will shift to technology.
I think it's conceivable not that we can release in chapters- unicellular, multicellular, aware, etc, where people can transfer an organism from one chapter to the next (as with characters in Mass Effect). Forget seamless transitions, it's just going to make the game messy as an end product. Hopefully this will make sense to you guys, and I'm sure Roadkilll will be happy to share his thoughts on it.

but then we wont come to the problem of the "god" mode?, i mean, once we get the god tools, how we're gonna experiment with the universe?, how im gonna play with cells, and see with the eyes of an alien animal or watch it from the eyes of my own civilization?

penumbra espinosa wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Guys, our focus right now is on cells. Then our focus will be on multicellular, if we ever get there, our focus will shift to technology.
I think it's conceivable not that we can release in chapters- unicellular, multicellular, aware, etc, where people can transfer an organism from one chapter to the next (as with characters in Mass Effect). Forget seamless transitions, it's just going to make the game messy as an end product. Hopefully this will make sense to you guys, and I'm sure Roadkilll will be happy to share his thoughts on it.

but then we wont come to the problem of the "god" mode?, i mean, once we get the god tools, how we're gonna experiment with the universe?, how im gonna play with cells, and see with the eyes of an alien animal or watch it from the eyes of my own civilization?

When you achieve sentience, all of the other organisms still in the plain old multicellular phase will still be around, and when you have a city there will still be tribes, just as they were.
Having a separate cellular, cellular colony (if it still exists, I hope so, it was an awesome idea), and multicellular part of the game would be simpler, but wouldn't separating out the game after multicellular surely just lead to problems?

The Uteen wrote:

penumbra espinosa wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Guys, our focus right now is on cells. Then our focus will be on multicellular, if we ever get there, our focus will shift to technology.
I think it's conceivable not that we can release in chapters- unicellular, multicellular, aware, etc, where people can transfer an organism from one chapter to the next (as with characters in Mass Effect). Forget seamless transitions, it's just going to make the game messy as an end product. Hopefully this will make sense to you guys, and I'm sure Roadkilll will be happy to share his thoughts on it.

but then we wont come to the problem of the "god" mode?, i mean, once we get the god tools, how we're gonna experiment with the universe?, how im gonna play with cells, and see with the eyes of an alien animal or watch it from the eyes of my own civilization?

When you achieve sentience, all of the other organisms still in the plain old multicellular phase will still be around, and when you have a city there will still be tribes, just as they were.
Having a separate cellular, cellular colony (if it still exists, I hope so, it was an awesome idea), and multicellular part of the game would be simpler, but wouldn't separating out the game after multicellular surely just lead to problems?

Possibly. I think the new chapter that would cover civilization would make organic evolution a smaller part of the game and focus on technological progress. It makes sense to divide the two at some point.

~sciocont wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

penumbra espinosa wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Guys, our focus right now is on cells. Then our focus will be on multicellular, if we ever get there, our focus will shift to technology.
I think it's conceivable not that we can release in chapters- unicellular, multicellular, aware, etc, where people can transfer an organism from one chapter to the next (as with characters in Mass Effect). Forget seamless transitions, it's just going to make the game messy as an end product. Hopefully this will make sense to you guys, and I'm sure Roadkilll will be happy to share his thoughts on it.

but then we wont come to the problem of the "god" mode?, i mean, once we get the god tools, how we're gonna experiment with the universe?, how im gonna play with cells, and see with the eyes of an alien animal or watch it from the eyes of my own civilization?

When you achieve sentience, all of the other organisms still in the plain old multicellular phase will still be around, and when you have a city there will still be tribes, just as they were.
Having a separate cellular, cellular colony (if it still exists, I hope so, it was an awesome idea), and multicellular part of the game would be simpler, but wouldn't separating out the game after multicellular surely just lead to problems?

Possibly. I think the new chapter that would cover civilization would make organic evolution a smaller part of the game and focus on technological progress. It makes sense to divide the two at some point.

A slowing of evolution would make sense, since technology advances relatively quickly, but if it stopped completely domestication wouldn't work. A slowing of evolution hardly seems something to split the game in twain over.

I say only one thing: please do not cut phases tribes, industry, civilization and space. I think one of the best parts is that of exploring the galaxy with the species that have followed for long stages. Do not stop the game at one stage creature!

Doggit wrote:

I say only one thing: please do not cut phases tribes, industry, civilization and space. I think one of the best parts is that of exploring the galaxy with the species that have followed for long stages. Do not stop the game at one stage creature!

I don't think we're going to do that. We've moved on quite a bit, and the topic of this thread is becoming quite confusing.

I think we should move discussion onto another thread if there's anything left to say. At least then it will be obvious what we're talking about.

Were it so easy....I think this thread is through.
We will not take out any stages.
Lets just stik to the original plan.

MeowMan1 wrote:

Were it so easy....I think this thread is through.
We will not take out any stages.
Lets just stik to the original plan.

And what's that? Letting anyone and their dog submit an idea, fight over the current concept, only to have it "added" to the game?