Programmer coordination discussion

Seregon wrote:

A quick reminder that our next meeting starts in just over an hour on the IRC. We'll be discussing coding standards and repositories primarily.

yay

Ok, tonights meeting just finished. Unfortunately we had some difficulty staying on topic, with a few derailments, so didn't get as much done as hoped. It would be nice in future if those joining the discussion kept in mind what we're trying to discuss, and if you don't anything constructive to contribute, you simply watch quietly. Non programmers are more than welcome to join a discussion, just don't expect us to explain every piece of jargon we use, if you don't understand something, look it up.

We did manage to agree on most of our coding standards, as well as get an idea of the initial classes we need to implement. A chat log, and a summary document are linked below.

Meeting log

Standards summary

I've also now set up a GitHub repository for the code. Could any coders please register on github and pm me their usernames so that I can add them there. Non coders are also welcome to do so, but I won't give you rights to edit the code in the repository, though you will be able to download and see any of it, and edit it on your own computers.

We should have a basic framework up in the next week or two, and Jaws has offered to setup an initial scene using Ogre which we can work with.

Thanks a ton for the update. Sorry about all of the PMs this morning, I was excited about the climate maths. I believe I've figured it out now.

Wow guys this is going great, we really are doing well here. I get so glad every time I read your updates. Again, if there is anything you need me to do like filling out charts or making diagrams that would normally take away from time you guys could spend doing other things please PM me.

Belgium I totally forgot about it !
Oh well, I wasn't near my PC anyway..

I'll read the logs

I've been meaning to post this for a while, but unfortunately have been very busy with work the last few weeks. Currently, I know that Apeiron is working on an overall game framework, and Jaws is working on a test scene in ogre, possibly with help from GamerXA. Once we have those in place there are a lot more things we can start working on.

One thing that Apeiron has asked me for is help writing platform abstractions to allow the game to work on multiple OSes. He's written one for Windows, so could anyone with experience of doing so please contact him to help out?

I come with very doo doo news, I'm still not done with the test scene (but almost)the issue was my computer but that's fixed and now that i'm coding out everything I realize that The pre built SDKs for ogre are windows oriented (visual studio, d3d, etc) and Linux users (roadkill) will have to set up their engine. I already set up my engine (just cause) but I think this is important info.

Thanks for letting us know, and don't worry if things take a little longer than expected, they often do. When you say the SDKs are windows oriented, I assume your refering to installing them for development, rather than using them in code?

So, it has been a couple of days, actually now two weeks, that we have had a joint programmer meeting as far as I know. Now is anyone willing to share a brief summary of what they have done so far? It would be great to see whats going on behind the scenes.

Also, I was thinking that a new meeting should be arranged sometime soon. Are you programmers in touch? I was asked previously to mediate one of our upcoming meetings, just to keep things on topic, and I would be more than welcome to if it's at a time I can make it.

I'd be interested in mediating/organizing as well.

Sorry I've not been doing much organising lately, I've simply had too many other things to work on. Until we have some initial code in place I can't do much to help with the actual coding, as there are much more experienced c++ programmers here than me, though I'll be doing everything I can to help once we have a framework to build on.

If anyone would like to organise/mediate another meeting, that'd be great. I would also recommend that people log into the IRC whenever possible to discuss development and perhaps get/offer some help.

Definitely. I'm pretty swamped with work at the moment as well, but since nobody seems to have questions or discussion topics for microbe stage, I'm not too worried about being frequently absent.
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Ok, I don't want to look bossy or anything, but could any developers and/or programmers just give a little feedback on what they are working on? Just a brief summary, nothing too detailed, I don't want to take away too much of your time. I also just want to see how many of you guys are still active. If you need any help with what you are doing please mention that as well, because I am sure everyone would be more than willing to help you guys out.

I would really appreciate this, as I think others would too, since nothing much has been happening so far and I am really worried that we are going to lose all the programmers we had about 2-3 weeks back and go back to the state we were in before. I will be posting some of my work as well, just to revive some spirit in the conceptual section, but it is nothing compared to the work you guys have been doing.

Here's what I'm stuck at. I've done some basic abstraction that was ready to interface with some OS specific stuff. The problem is that Ogre wouldn't like that, and I started looking into the Ogre technology only a few days ago.

More importantly, we're going to need people capable of writing OS specific abstractions.

Also, Ido please do refrain from saying stuff like "C++ is like C99 with many more stuff", thanks ... The languages are black and white semantically, C just happens to compile in C++.

Please, someone push some basic folder structure into the project.

I suggest the following, feel free to discuss ...

Code:

build - Binaries / Stuff that the compiler spits out.
vendor - should be managed by our build system
src - This topmost folder will have just the main.cpp, create subfolders for everything else, like ->
    src\core - Just an example, say, put game logic in here.
    src\common - Stuff that is used throughout the project.
    src\platform - Platform independent stuff (I've written some of it already, the problem is we don't need a generic void swapBuffers() for instance, since Ogre comes with one. (correct me if I'm wrong).)
        src\platform\windows - Take a guess
res - Resources -> Nothing in here, subfolders for Artworks, music, etc ...
    res\soundEffects - A random subfolder

Thanks for posting Apeiron, I'm glad to see how you've done so far!

I would like to be able to reply to your post, but alas my programming ineptitude has rendered me illiterate. Hopefully someone else responds soon.

Do we have anyone here willing and capable of doing the necessary platform abstractions? I can't help with those, as I only have experience with windows. If that's not something we can get done, it will simply have to wait. There was mention of platform specific setup being required for Ogre, that atleast is something we should be able to manage using the Ogre docs.

I've pushed some very basic folder structure before, but Git only noticed folders if theres something in them, so setting up a more complete folder structure is going to result in a lot of empty files. I agree with your structure, though I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between 'build' and 'vendor'?

Thanks for posting. Is there anything I can do to increase communication between programmers and help with your workflow, since I'm not a programmer myself?

Seregon wrote:

Do we have anyone here willing and capable of doing the necessary platform abstractions? I can't help with those, as I only have experience with windows. If that's not something we can get done, it will simply have to wait. There was mention of platform specific setup being required for Ogre, that atleast is something we should be able to manage using the Ogre docs.

I've pushed some very basic folder structure before, but Git only noticed folders if theres something in them, so setting up a more complete folder structure is going to result in a lot of empty files. I agree with your structure, though I'm not entirely sure what the difference is between 'build' and 'vendor'?

Vendor is stuff like plugins, modules, 3hd party stuff required for the game to run, etc ...
Build is stuff that our compiler spits out.

Ok so I know I keep saying this, but I have decided to set a goal of watching the tutorial series on C++ by this winter break. I also need to learn C or C++ anyways as part of the requirements for the robotics club. I will be learning basic programs for robots, and I hope I can somehow translate that into increasing my contributions towards Thrive. I know this post was really not useful or productive, I just really wanted to say this.

I've been meaning to post this for a while, but have had far too many other commitments recently to do so. As far as I'm aware, programming progress has largely stalled. I've not had any progress reports from other programmers, and quite a few haven't logged on in a while.

The problem we're having isn't so much a lack of programmers, as a lack of coordination. I attempted to coordinate everything over the last few months, but it's not why I joined Thrive, and combined with a severe lack of free time, that means I haven't done a very good job of it. We did have several succesful meetings, and were able to decide on coding standards, libraries, and other things we needed to know before starting coding, but we've struggled to actually implement anything.

There are several other factors I could go into, but in short what we need is focused, and coordinated, development of a core framework on which to build the rest of Thrive. Until that's in place, I don't think (and I may be wrong) that we can reasonably accomodate many more programmers, as they won't have something to work on.

What we really need then, is someone to coordinate our programming efforts. Ideally this would be another programmer, but if someone is particularly good at organising others, and willing to ask, and listen to, what we have to say about what needs doing, then that could work too.
I'm more than happy to advise, and I will continue to work on the programming, but coordinating is not why I joined Thrive, and it's sapping my motivation to do what I did come here for (developing the compound/pop dynamics/auto-evo systems, prototyping, and coding... in that order).

As and when I have time, I will be working on the core framework I mentioned above, but it will take quite some time as it requires me to learn rather a lot that I don't already know. Once thats in place, I'd feel a lot more comfortable assigning others to work on seperate areas of the code. Until then, I feel we should be working together towards that, and it may get a little crowded if theres more than a few of us.

I would be willing to coordinate if no other programmers offer. I feel like I spend far too much time simply browsing the forums mindlessly when I am not working on compiling all the strategy mode concept into a word file, and I would appreciate an opportunity to help out.

Sorry to double post, but could all programmers please PM me their emails. We are going to be starting email discussion in addition to the programmer coordination discussion. There has been a period of inactivity recently, but we are going to be picking up the pace around here and getting back on track. I recommend to all coders to check out this wonderful thread here by Seregon, which should mostly be review. Also be ready to regularly check the forums, repositories, email, and trackers for updates in progress and development. Don't feel pressured by the use of the term "regularly", but try your best.

The main trackers that will be used, as mentioned before, are GitHub and Pivotal Tracker. I will be spending time getting experienced with both of these to try and help you out.

Before anyone objects, I have agreed with Nick that he'll help coordinate things for now, and I'll be advising coding wise. If anyone else would like to help, please let one of us know - I had meant to leave this open for a few days more, Nick's just more efficient than I expected!

To all programmers, I recommend you make accounts on the website Pivotal Tracker so I can add you to our project (https://www.pivotaltracker.com/projects/686469). PM me or email me your usernames so I can add you. The website will be a useful tool for project management, and basically for organizing and prioritizing our goals and objectives.

Also, I would like to point out that Seregon has started an extremely useful thread, so if you have any issues while coding or undertaking any of the tasks outlined in the email discussion or Pivotal Tracker, post there. There we (well I guess not me because I can't code) can collaborate on any issues or problems anyone runs into with the hard development.

Okay, important news for all programmers, there will be an upcoming IRC meeting. This will be a chance to reconnect with each other, communicate, discuss who has done what and who will do what, and any other issues. Something that I know is currently an issue getting the code setup done. In this process Seregon has had some issues with MyGUI. I am not fully knowledgeable of this so I might be wrong but this is a chance for you all to discuss any problems you may be facing similarly with MyGUI or anything. Remember that there is a useful troubleshooting thread here. So, before we have this meeting we need to decide when to have it. What times work with you guys?