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 PPG- Procedural Planet Generator

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~sciocont
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PostSubject: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:55 pm

This idea uses my current PE concept found here.

Keen mentioned in another thread how planets other than your own could be populated only after you discover them. I think it's a great idea, but we're going to need a bunch of procedurals bundled together to create something like this.

I call what we need the PPG, procedural planet generator, and here's the basic rundown of how i think it should work-

1- we start out with information about the planet (or moon, of course) in question. We need to know
a. distance from star, type of star
b. gas/rocky
c. is it a satellite/does it have satellites
i. (if it is a satellite) general information about the planet that it orbits
ii. #of satellites, general info such as gravitation, makeup, etc
d. geologically active/inactive
i. (if active) amount of activity
ii. (if active) type of activity

That's all I can think of right now in general information (if there is more, please tell me!). These things will give us the information needed to match it with a planet template, which is basically just a set of rules describing what the planet is allowed to be like.

From this information the PPG will select a planet template, and from there on, the fun stuff begins. But first, I'm going to allow us to get our bearings on the planet templates, so i'm going to put a potential list up in the next post, please include criteria (from above), planet description, and basis in reality.

Based on the above criteria, a template will be selected, and the PPG will start terraforming away. Now, i've thought of a few good ways to do this, which is something i'll describe in a later edit. For now, all you need to know is that the process for terraforming will probably be random.

Finally, based on the first criteria, the planet will be populated with ecosystem brushes. The brushes will be applied where they make sense, according to elevation, hypothetical weather, etc. We'll need to come up with a logic chart for it eventually, but not right now.

Finally, the PPG can create solar systems by generating a star, then throwing in a few random gas and rocky bodies. These will be defined by the conditions above, but will actually be "template planets" that we pre-create. This will make load times easy, and will increase the chances of finding interesting planets. After the first few planets are thrown in, more are populated along the initial rules, and they get satellites and such as well.

All of this is a bit vague, I know, so please post and tell me what can be added/changed.




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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Mon Aug 23, 2010 6:58 pm

Planet Template List

Please include criteria (found below), planet description, and basis in reality.

I know it looks daunting, but post what you can, and I'll try to help you out the best I can.

1- we start out with information about the planet (or moon, of course) in question. We need to know
-a. distance from star
-b. gas/rocky
-c. can it be a satellite/can it have satellites
--i. (if must be a satellite) general information about the planet that it orbits
--ii. #of possible satellites and their size
-d. geologically active/inactive
--i. (if active) amount of activity
--ii. (if active) type of activity &causes

Notes/further description:



Example:

Pseudo-Terran

-a. goldilocks zone (or satellite of large gas giant)
-b. rocky
-c. it can be a satellite, it can have satellites
--i. if it is a satellite, it must orbit either in the Goldilocks Zone, or around a large gas giant
--ii. up to five mid-sized satellites, general info such as gravitation, makeup, etc
-d. geologically active
--i. highly active
--ii. plate tectonics, moderate volcanism, core heated by decaying radioactive isotopes and/or tidal pull (if it is in orbit around a Gas giant)

Notes/further description:
This planet is ideal for earth-like life to appear, evolve and thrive on. It is very much like Earth.

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Last edited by ~sciocont on Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:27 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Mon Aug 23, 2010 8:40 pm

Hit the wrong button again, Scio?

I'm not convinced that orbiting a Gas Giant would result in an Earth-like planet. Where did you get this information? Also, will SuperAutoEvo (Which, actually, could be a very quick run of that math guy's [neusmo?] concept about population mapping or whatever!) be used once environments are set down? Because otherwise we will end up with stock species recurring throughout the universe.

EDIT: El_Noumo. That math guy.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 4:50 am

Good, but one idea I'd like to add is... A moon of jupiter or saturn, made of ice with a liquid core. Forgot its name, but would that be counted as a different sort of planet? It is very different to rocky planets & satellites, the surface isn't habitable, but its version of a mantle, made of water, is. Rocky planets just have uninhabitable magma.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 8:40 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Hit the wrong button again, Scio?

I'm not convinced that orbiting a Gas Giant would result in an Earth-like planet. Where did you get this information? Also, will SuperAutoEvo (Which, actually, could be a very quick run of that math guy's [neusmo?] concept about population mapping or whatever!) be used once environments are set down? Because otherwise we will end up with stock species recurring throughout the universe.

EDIT: El_Noumo. That math guy.
There is no longer any proof.

Because of a gas giant's high gravity, as a planet rotates around it, the planet itself stretches, resulting in a phenomenon called tidal heating. This allows high geologic activity on the moon (take Io for example), and could lead to a very warm body.

Keen mentioned on another thread that auto evo could run at a very diminished rate, because your perception in game will be thinner once you reach civilization stages. We could add in a bit of code that would prevent a species from being used twice in the same game. Again, we'll have to set up a thread for how the "Sporepedia" of Thrive will work.

Uteen- You're thinking of Europa, I believe. It's a rocky body, but is covered in a thick crust of ice with a probable layer of liquid water underneath that. Beneath that, it's probably like any other rocky planet. Feel free to put up a template for it.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 12:46 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Uteen- You're thinking of Europa, I believe. It's a rocky body, but is covered in a thick crust of ice with a probable layer of liquid water underneath that. Beneath that, it's probably like any other rocky planet. Feel free to put up a template for it.

That's it. But that sort of planet/moon in-game may appear to be a desolate uninhabitable planet. Maybe some sort of representation could be made alongside the name to give information, for example (for space-fish, because water is stated as habitable):

Atmosphere: None - [Whether breathable/how toxic if atmosphere]
-------------------------

Visible crust: Mainly ice - UNINHABITABLE - Too cold for life to evolve, too little oxygen for gills to work
-------------------------

Beneath visible: Liquid water - HABITABLE - Presence of life not yet determined
-------------------------

Mantle: Solid - rocky - No tectonic movement
-------------------------

Core: Mainly iron and nickel
-------------------------
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 5:39 pm

Werent we promised plants growing in real time in Fable: the lost chapters or something along those lines?
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:19 pm

maker.of.light wrote:
Werent we promised plants growing in real time in Fable: the lost chapters or something along those lines?

What?
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 6:34 pm

The Uteen wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Uteen- You're thinking of Europa, I believe. It's a rocky body, but is covered in a thick crust of ice with a probable layer of liquid water underneath that. Beneath that, it's probably like any other rocky planet. Feel free to put up a template for it.

That's it. But that sort of planet/moon in-game may appear to be a desolate uninhabitable planet. Maybe some sort of representation could be made alongside the name to give information, for example (for space-fish, because water is stated as habitable):

Atmosphere: None - [Whether breathable/how toxic if atmosphere]
-------------------------

Visible crust: Mainly ice - UNINHABITABLE - Too cold for life to evolve, too little oxygen for gills to work
-------------------------

Beneath visible: Liquid water - HABITABLE - Presence of life not yet determined
-------------------------

Mantle: Solid - rocky - No tectonic movement
-------------------------

Core: Mainly iron and nickel
-------------------------

That sound like a good general setup for an in-game description.

@Makeroflight- please stay on topic.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:06 pm

~sciocont wrote:
There is no longer any proof.

Because of a gas giant's high gravity, as a planet rotates around it, the planet itself stretches, resulting in a phenomenon called tidal heating. This allows high geologic activity on the moon (take Io for example), and could lead to a very warm body.

Keen mentioned on another thread that auto evo could run at a very diminished rate, because your perception in game will be thinner once you reach civilization stages. We could add in a bit of code that would prevent a species from being used twice in the same game. Again, we'll have to set up a thread for how the "Sporepedia" of Thrive will work.

Uteen- You're thinking of Europa, I believe. It's a rocky body, but is covered in a thick crust of ice with a probable layer of liquid water underneath that. Beneath that, it's probably like any other rocky planet. Feel free to put up a template for it.
I still don't believe that the goldilocks zone and Gas Giant moon planets should be in the same category...
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:19 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
There is no longer any proof.

Because of a gas giant's high gravity, as a planet rotates around it, the planet itself stretches, resulting in a phenomenon called tidal heating. This allows high geologic activity on the moon (take Io for example), and could lead to a very warm body.

Keen mentioned on another thread that auto evo could run at a very diminished rate, because your perception in game will be thinner once you reach civilization stages. We could add in a bit of code that would prevent a species from being used twice in the same game. Again, we'll have to set up a thread for how the "Sporepedia" of Thrive will work.

Uteen- You're thinking of Europa, I believe. It's a rocky body, but is covered in a thick crust of ice with a probable layer of liquid water underneath that. Beneath that, it's probably like any other rocky planet. Feel free to put up a template for it.
I still don't believe that the goldilocks zone and Gas Giant moon planets should be in the same category...
It's plausible, and it will make the game quite interesting.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:22 pm

~sciocont wrote:
It's plausible, and it will make the game quite interesting.
It may be plausible, but would they really return the same results? i mean, anything that has to photosynthesize to survive could only survive in the goldilocks zone, a Gas Giant moon would be too far from the sun and would have a long period of being eclipsed.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:25 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
It's plausible, and it will make the game quite interesting.
It may be plausible, but would they really return the same results? i mean, anything that has to photosynthesize to survive could only survive in the goldilocks zone, a Gas Giant moon would be too far from the sun and would have a long period of being eclipsed.
Extremophile bacteria on earth can live with alost no light an still photosynthesize, so i think we're pretty safe.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:26 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Extremophile bacteria on earth can live with alost no light an still photosynthesize, so i think we're pretty safe.
But there's a difference between extramophilic bacteria and jungles. You can't call a Earth-Like planet Earth-Like if there's no jungles or forests.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:28 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Extremophile bacteria on earth can live with alost no light an still photosynthesize, so i think we're pretty safe.
But there's a difference between extramophilic bacteria and jungles. You can't call a Earth-Like planet Earth-Like if there's no jungles or forests.
The planet it rotates around could easily be in the goldilocks zone itself. Plus, i will use this quote again and again- "life will find a way"

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:31 pm

~sciocont wrote:
The planet it rotates around could easily be in the goldilocks zone itself. Plus, i will use this quote again and again- "life will find a way"
It's all very good and well to use that quote, but how do you expect the game to find a way? Gas Giants will always be further away from the homestar than solid rocky planets. Centrifugal Force does that.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:34 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
The planet it rotates around could easily be in the goldilocks zone itself. Plus, i will use this quote again and again- "life will find a way"
It's all very good and well to use that quote, but how do you expect the game to find a way? Gas Giants will always be further away from the homestar than solid rocky planets. Centrifugal Force does that.
Depnds on the power of the star really, a blue giant could easily create an earthlike environment on a planet as far away as Jupiter, I'd estimate.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:34 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Depnds on the power of the star really, a blue giant could easily create an earthlike environment on a planet as far away as Jupiter, I'd estimate.
We need to find out if things like this are really plausible.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Tue Aug 24, 2010 7:44 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Depnds on the power of the star really, a blue giant could easily create an earthlike environment on a planet as far away as Jupiter, I'd estimate.
We need to find out if things like this are really plausible.
I'm constantly researching, and i'll make this top priority.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Wed Aug 25, 2010 11:21 pm

We can continue as I have planned.

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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Thu Sep 02, 2010 4:41 am

notice that the goldilocks is relative, earth would be much colder without CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, so the components and density of atmosphere should be accounted for in determining the size and position of the zone....
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Thu Sep 02, 2010 5:14 pm

I'm pretty sure the planet's gases wont affect the goldilocks zone. They just determine whether it's habitable or not. It's the brightness of the start that determines it.
<-Haha perfect.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:40 am

Is the planet generator going to generate the planet's composition purely at random? Because in the formation of our solar system certain materials were denser in certain places, the reason rocky planets are all together.
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Fri Sep 03, 2010 9:19 am

I'm looking into rendering the planet by a single equation and some perlin noise. (essentially a fractal) We have to generate them this way because we cant just render ALL of the planet ALL of the time. We have to subdivide and unsubdivide to keep the speed up. We technically don't know exactly what the height of each vertex will be, so we'll plug in it's position, and receive the height. Then, an entire planet's terrain could be represented by a single seed. (a.k.a. number)


Last edited by roadkillguy on Sat Sep 04, 2010 9:03 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Seeds are for terrain.)
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PostSubject: Re: PPG- Procedural Planet Generator   Sat Sep 04, 2010 5:40 am

But will planets have similar materials if they are next to each other, or is that more 'in the next ten years' realisticness of programming?
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