The List, All God Tools to Date

Subject: The List, All God Tools to Date Sun Jan 02, 2011 11:42 pm

Alright. We talk alot about God Tools, but I've yet to see a list of them.

I haven't been keeping track, so you guys are going to have to post what we have/what you want.

I'll edit the OP as needed to contain all greenlighted GTs.

Aaaaaaaaand, they're off!

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 03, 2011 2:32 am

Create Planet tool

Regular Posts : 260 Reputation : 6 Join date : 2010-08-07

Not my major topic but Ill have a go at listing ones I know of and ones I think should be included.
I'm just gonna simplify them down to their most basic categories.

Basically I'm thinking of God tools as Brushes.
Most Tools/Brushes have a size variable. These could be represented with sliders on the GUI.

The size determines the scale of the effect. As stated below, the varying size of the "Destroy Tool" could, for example break the leg of a small organism, or rip a planet to pieces. It could range from creating a mound of dirt to a range of mountains. A single raincloud to a cosmic Nebula.

EDIT: Longpost needs a spoiler.

Spoiler:

And the list, because thats what was asked for, right :P:

Spoiler:

Thats not nearly all of them but its a start

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:11 am

Pezzalis wrote:

Not my major topic but Ill have a go at listing ones I know of and ones I think should be included.
I'm just gonna simplify them down to their most basic categories.

Basically I'm thinking of God tools as Brushes.
Most Tools/Brushes have a size variable. These could be represented with sliders on the GUI.

The size determines the scale of the effect. As stated below, the varying size of the "Destroy Tool" could, for example break the leg of a small organism, or rip a planet to pieces. It could range from creating a mound of dirt to a range of mountains. A single raincloud to a cosmic Nebula.

EDIT: Longpost needs a spoiler.

Spoiler:

And the list, because thats what was asked for, right :P:

Spoiler:

Thats not nearly all of them but its a start

Go(o)d List!

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 03, 2011 11:22 am

Pezzalis wrote:

Not my major topic but Ill have a go at listing ones I know of and ones I think should be included.
I'm just gonna simplify them down to their most basic categories.

Basically I'm thinking of God tools as Brushes.
Most Tools/Brushes have a size variable. These could be represented with sliders on the GUI.

The size determines the scale of the effect. As stated below, the varying size of the "Destroy Tool" could, for example break the leg of a small organism, or rip a planet to pieces. It could range from creating a mound of dirt to a range of mountains. A single raincloud to a cosmic Nebula.

EDIT: Longpost needs a spoiler.

Spoiler:

And the list, because thats what was asked for, right :P:

Spoiler:

Thats not nearly all of them but its a start

Nice list, but the matter and creation tools could probably be merged, the matter ones are creating, really.

Godly tool of redoing, please.

And Godly tool of save and load objects. Needs a better name. Load probably creation, save... Needs to be near it.

And for plasma tools: Star creation tool.

Good idea for the cosmic tools, too.

Wow, Sandbox is gonna be cool! I wanna time-warp everything in my Sandbox! Lolz!!!!!11! And Thrive'll be good, too.

Couldn't undo and redo be part of timewarp, by any chance? Just reverse time slightly, and do something else. That would be interesting.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 03, 2011 12:15 pm

Great idea for a god tool:

Impossible is only a world
Applied to an area (a country, a planet, a galaxy?) lets you create everything regardless physic laws in that area.
Create glass men, wormhole engines, immortal cats (:P) and ever more!

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 03, 2011 7:03 pm

andry796 wrote:: Great idea for a god tool:

Impossible is only a world
Applied to an area (a country, a planet, a galaxy?) lets you create everything regardless physic laws in that area.
Create glass men, wormhole engines, immortal cats (:P) and ever more!

That would eb quite difficult to implement. Basically, you're wanting the ability to make things disregard game physics, but it would be quite arduous to actually specify exactly what ares of physics you want them to disregard.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 1:02 am

I think game physics might be bendable, but for your computer/game's sake we may not want to break them outright.
And that is a lot of tools.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 12:25 pm

~sciocont wrote:

andry796 wrote:: Great idea for a god tool:

Impossible is only a world
Applied to an area (a country, a planet, a galaxy?) lets you create everything regardless physic laws in that area.
Create glass men, wormhole engines, immortal cats (:P) and ever more!

That would eb quite difficult to implement. Basically, you're wanting the ability to make things disregard game physics, but it would be quite arduous to actually specify exactly what ares of physics you want them to disregard.

Just make that when you create something in that area the editor will ignore every physic issue.
example:
The List, All God Tools to Date Cyclopius

Just tell to the game engine that this creature can walk and will not fall (It could not walk, because it has only a leg, it could jump, but couldn't walk).

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:35 pm

andry796 wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

andry796 wrote:: Great idea for a god tool:

Impossible is only a world
Applied to an area (a country, a planet, a galaxy?) lets you create everything regardless physic laws in that area.
Create glass men, wormhole engines, immortal cats (:P) and ever more!

That would eb quite difficult to implement. Basically, you're wanting the ability to make things disregard game physics, but it would be quite arduous to actually specify exactly what ares of physics you want them to disregard.

Just make that when you create something in that area the editor will ignore every physic issue.
example:
The List, All God Tools to Date Cyclopius

Just tell to the game engine that this creature can walk and will not fall (It could not walk, because it has only a leg, it could jump, but couldn't walk).

I take it that is a broken image I'm seeing, not an example of the game breaking?

So... You would have to choose which physics it defies. I read recently in 'A Brief History Of Time' by Stephen Hawking, of a law made by Subrahmanyan Chandrasekhar (click to read about him, as some may want to) which stops particles being in the same location. If that law was defied, everything would become a black hole, and if you want to make anything other than a black hole, then don't defy that.

What I'm saying is, customisability of law-defying qualities will be required. And I'm advertising a book... Oops. [pureopinionnotadvertising]It's a good book if you haven't done much advanced science at school yet, but enjoy learning, and don't really get most stuff on wikipedia.[/pureopinionnotadvertising]

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:25 pm

You know what I mean!
Don't be stupid!
I don't mean "turning off" all physics, just those that wont let you to create somethig imaginary, for example an organism without organs or inanimated objects gaining life!

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 6:29 pm

andry796 wrote:: You know what I mean!
Don't be stupid!
I don't mean "turning off" all physics, just those that wont let you to create somethig imaginary, for example an organism without organs or inanimated objects gaining life!

All things must be programed. We need very, very, very explicite detail of what you mean, and the effect it has on the game. Otherwise we cannot consider it at all.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Jan 04, 2011 10:38 pm

The game is made with restrictions for a reason... sometimes stuff needs physics to keep it from being complete chaos.
Andry, if in the example you're talking about with a one-legged creature (whose locomotion options are restricted to only one, 'hop" as opposed to a two-legged that could "hop' "crawl" "walk" etc.) being allowed to use other options, like walk, (and therefore having areas inacessable by hopping now acessable) then I think that would be possible.
Organless creature - well, I can see why you might want to make one. But I think we'd best not ask bashi for that, as we more or less have an autocode (to my knowlege) that will provide you with your basic organs, which you then mess with. Leaving an option to turn off some of our more buried autocodes could lead to serious game borkage. So no omnitool to turn off these things - I agree with Rex on that.
Specify which bits you want turned off, and we'll have a look and see if it would be feasable or if it would cause borkage.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Wed Jan 05, 2011 8:47 pm

Quote :: Leaving an option to turn off some of our more buried autocodes could lead to serious game borkage.

Thanks for pointing that out. Code is like jenga. You never quite know what's going to happen when you start removing blocks. and the deeper down the stack the block is, the more that could collapse if it was the wrong one.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:23 am

We don't have to remove code.
And I don't see it too much difficult.
For example organless organisms won't show organs (if killed) and will have more strenght.
Glas men: Just show their skin traslucent and don't show organs or whatever they have inside.
Immortal cats ( again): just make their lifespan ∞.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Thu Jan 06, 2011 9:42 am

~sciocont wrote:

Quote :: Leaving an option to turn off some of our more buried autocodes could lead to serious game borkage.

Thanks for pointing that out. Code is like jenga. You never quite know what's going to happen when you start removing blocks. and the deeper down the stack the block is, the more that could collapse if it was the wrong one.

Eurgh. Even aside from the way it'd break the game, I really don't like the idea of god tools that straight-up just ignore things like physics. I know the knee-jerk reaction to that is "QQ but I wanna actually be god," but coding the mind of infinity was never what we set out to do.

Do we have a clear, stated goal for God tools? I haven't actually seen one. Establishing clear "mission statements" for each section would likely rein in some of the more crazy stuff - it'd save us having to re-define everything all the time.

My idea for god tools has always been the following.
God tools are meant to give the player control over physical processes in the game that are normally automatic, as well as directly edit the existing game galaxy.

With that in mind, let's talk about basics - because that needs to happen here. Presuming that my above statement of purpose is acceptable, we need tools that can:
1) Place objects in the game galaxy.
2) Edit or remove objects already in the game galaxy.

I really like the above-given list of tools - I think most of those are useful. The only exception is the "gravity well" - it's unnecessary. Gravity, I think, should be a hard-wired, under-the-hood phenomenon. If you want a gravity well, create matter, or place a black hole. Place enough matter in one place, and, if it's dense enough, it should automatically compress into a sphere once it's above the given threshold for mass. That's how planetary formation actually works, and it doesn't make sense to complicate it further.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Thu Jan 06, 2011 1:27 pm

Couldn't you get something pretty much exactly the same as a gravity well if you made a black hole and dragged it around with a god tool?

We need a god tool that lets you drag things around. Unless we could just click & drag with the godly selection tool, of course.

Regular Posts : 260 Reputation : 6 Join date : 2010-08-07

The Uteen wrote:: Couldn't you get something pretty much exactly the same as a gravity well if you made a black hole and dragged it around with a god tool?

We need a god tool that lets you drag things around. Unless we could just click & drag with the godly selection tool, of course.

My earlier list had the Grab tool, just click and grab to drag any entity round. COuld be as small as dragging a small organism by the tail to pulling your enemies home planet into the home star

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Fri Jan 07, 2011 5:56 pm

Redstar wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Quote :: Leaving an option to turn off some of our more buried autocodes could lead to serious game borkage.

Thanks for pointing that out. Code is like jenga. You never quite know what's going to happen when you start removing blocks. and the deeper down the stack the block is, the more that could collapse if it was the wrong one.

Eurgh. Even aside from the way it'd break the game, I really don't like the idea of god tools that straight-up just ignore things like physics. I know the knee-jerk reaction to that is "QQ but I wanna actually be god," but coding the mind of infinity was never what we set out to do.

Do we have a clear, stated goal for God tools? I haven't actually seen one. Establishing clear "mission statements" for each section would likely rein in some of the more crazy stuff - it'd save us having to re-define everything all the time.

My idea for god tools has always been the following.
God tools are meant to give the player control over physical processes in the game that are normally automatic, as well as directly edit the existing game galaxy.

With that in mind, let's talk about basics - because that needs to happen here. Presuming that my above statement of purpose is acceptable, we need tools that can:
1) Place objects in the game galaxy.
2) Edit or remove objects already in the game galaxy.

I really like the above-given list of tools - I think most of those are useful. The only exception is the "gravity well" - it's unnecessary. Gravity, I think, should be a hard-wired, under-the-hood phenomenon. If you want a gravity well, create matter, or place a black hole. Place enough matter in one place, and, if it's dense enough, it should automatically compress into a sphere once it's above the given threshold for mass. That's how planetary formation actually works, and it doesn't make sense to complicate it further.

Thanks, red. We do need a clear definition. We could think up things that are impossible literally forever. God tools should be USEFUL above all. We don't need easter-egg tools, we need tools that allow you to things you would actually want to do that would affect gameplay.

Newcomer Posts : 19 Reputation : 2 Join date : 2011-01-25

Ok, two questions (and an idea or two)
1st off, if you create a creature from scratch, and then help it grow to a full civilization, will they then worship you like a god? Like, build churches for you, and statues of you, and stuff like that? And, if so, I think you should get an extra tool- the "Chosen One" tool. Basically, it would let you select one member of the civilization, and give him semi-god powers. Like, being able to heal people, kill/destroy their enemies, make plants and animals, all that fun stuff. There would also be a chance that they would go mad with power and enslave the civilization. : P

2nd, will you be able to make viruses? I think it would be a cool addition to be able to unleash a plague on a planet, but that's just me.

And my idea-
Improbable planet. Similar to andry's idea, but not quite SO odd, and having only effect one planet. With it, you could create a planet in any way- It doesn't matter if it would work physically or not, you can still make it. You would also be able to place it anywhere in the start system. It could be brushing shoulders with the star, or be far enough away to normally be and ice ball. After you make the planet, you could also fill it with odd creatures. They'll work and live pretty much no matter what, and place them anywhere, along with make normally impossible ecosystems. It would make planet making easier and cooler, IMO.

Oh, and has anyone ever used Universe Sandbox?
I think some of the star system building tools are really helpful, and should be incorporated into Thrive. Like, the auto-orbit, "Goldilocks zone" button, Roche Limit, etc. Plus being able to launch a moon into a planet would be fun. : P
Those things would make building a star system MUCH easier, and take a lot of the annoying guess work out of it.

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Jan 31, 2011 11:00 pm

We're not going to have an extremely detailed gravity simulation. We'll set you up with what orbits work, a goldilocks zone, etc, when you go in.

Newcomer Posts : 19 Reputation : 2 Join date : 2011-01-25

Ok. Just wanted to make sure it wouldn't be TOO difficult to make a star system.

And what about the other things? Know anything about them?

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:27 pm

Other things: Virus editor was axed a couple months back as not worth the trouble. You want to programm the sucker, we'll be happy to include it.
We've got the "posess certain member of species option," I'm not certain everything that it entails. I don't think it unlocks superpowers or anything though.
Statues: How would your organism know what you look like?
Planet editor/gravity/do not break the universe has already been discussed. Basically, if we want our programming to work, there are going to be some things that we can bend and some things that we absolutely have to hardwire. We are still not completely certain of what everything falls under yet. Most of our constraints for solar systems are procedurally determined, however.

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Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:: Statues: How would your organism know what you look like?

We look to reality for the answer; They assume you created them in your own image; So they will be statues of themselves.

Of course that is just one example... They could also be statues of animals on their planet, or hybrid creatures (IE Horus, part man, part eagle)

Subject: Re: The List, All God Tools to Date Mon Feb 07, 2011 6:42 pm

Pezzalis wrote:

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:: Statues: How would your organism know what you look like?

We look to reality for the answer; They assume you created them in your own image; So they will be statues of themselves.

Of course that is just one example... They could also be statues of animals on their planet, or hybrid creatures (IE Horus, part man, part eagle)

Maybe you DID create them in your own image !

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