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 city big enought

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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:12 pm

~sciocont wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to zone using voronoi maps (one of which is how we plan to make country borders) The problem with zoning in cities is that even though they grow in unexpected ways, people living there are going to try to zone them based on a grid system, simply because grids really are the very best way that you can structure a city on. So large cities' districts can be defined by voronoi textures, but we would have to snap boundaries to streets and such. Does that make sense to you?
If we can get that working, it would also provide us with a good system for National/Provincial borders. Three-dimensional inter-planetary/interstellar borders are still gonna be an absolute Belgium to make though. It's really hard for us humans to think in three dimensional space.
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 3:50 pm

Tenebrarum wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to zone using voronoi maps (one of which is how we plan to make country borders) The problem with zoning in cities is that even though they grow in unexpected ways, people living there are going to try to zone them based on a grid system, simply because grids really are the very best way that you can structure a city on. So large cities' districts can be defined by voronoi textures, but we would have to snap boundaries to streets and such. Does that make sense to you?
If we can get that working, it would also provide us with a good system for National/Provincial borders. Three-dimensional inter-planetary/interstellar borders are still gonna be an absolute Belgium to make though. It's really hard for us humans to think in three dimensional space.

agreed. how do we want buildings structured in the city districts?
like the player places all the buildings? which means that their will be ugly spaces between the buildings, or do we want to use the players buildings to create a tighter sort of build? Just a suggestion.
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 4:24 pm

lbrewer wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to zone using voronoi maps (one of which is how we plan to make country borders) The problem with zoning in cities is that even though they grow in unexpected ways, people living there are going to try to zone them based on a grid system, simply because grids really are the very best way that you can structure a city on. So large cities' districts can be defined by voronoi textures, but we would have to snap boundaries to streets and such. Does that make sense to you?
If we can get that working, it would also provide us with a good system for National/Provincial borders. Three-dimensional inter-planetary/interstellar borders are still gonna be an absolute Belgium to make though. It's really hard for us humans to think in three dimensional space.

agreed. how do we want buildings structured in the city districts?
like the player places all the buildings? which means that their will be ugly spaces between the buildings, or do we want to use the players buildings to create a tighter sort of build? Just a suggestion.
Not sure on that one.

As for tenebrarum's problem, we can create voronoi textures in 3d space. think of a group odf soap bubbles sticking together. that's basically how a voronoi texture works.

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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 6:49 pm

You're going to kill roadkill's processor with all those spheres and semi-spheres, Scio.

I agree with it being hard to think in 3D (Especially ever-expanding spheres) but do we really need boundary points in space? We certainly don't have them in the ocean - national waters only extend out so far, then the rest of the seas are no-man's land.

My proposition: No soap bubbles. Every planet flagged as 'belonging' to a nation, empire, etc. has a small space around it that is basically national waters. (National space?) Or we could do it around whole solar systems, within their outer disk, though really the thought of policing an area like the kupier belt...

Anyhow.

Political Borders only exist insofar as they can be enforced. ~ Calli's summary of her politics teacher's previous lecture.

What is too difficult to enforce then becomes common goods. ~ Calli's rebuttal of the concept of privatizing everything, which was also a debate in her politics class earlier this week.

Please try enforcing 'federation space' with anything less powerful than the Death Star. It's just not practical.

Back on topic, I think the snap-to-grid voronoi sounds brilliant. It looks organic. Don't forget that in certain cases (such as when there is a vast swath of parkland, or a river running through town) we can just go with the original voronoi angles, and have a few diagonal streets thrown in that way, to make it look more natural.

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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 8:39 pm

I think that we will need to take the terrain into consideration a lot more than this voronoi-thing will. Perhaps dividing the surrounding area into a voronoi grid and then checking the grid area against a forumla that scores terrain on its "liveability". Something akin to what Civilization V used for their tile-spread. Plains and coast are given a high score, hills a lower one and mountains are the lowest, as they are the hardest to live on.
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:17 pm

US_of_Alaska wrote:
I think that we will need to take the terrain into consideration a lot more than this voronoi-thing will. Perhaps dividing the surrounding area into a voronoi grid and then checking the grid area against a forumla that scores terrain on its "liveability". Something akin to what Civilization V used for their tile-spread. Plains and coast are given a high score, hills a lower one and mountains are the lowest, as they are the hardest to live on.
We're just talking about how to divide up a city right now.

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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Fri Nov 04, 2011 11:24 pm

lbrewer wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to zone using voronoi maps (one of which is how we plan to make country borders) The problem with zoning in cities is that even though they grow in unexpected ways, people living there are going to try to zone them based on a grid system, simply because grids really are the very best way that you can structure a city on. So large cities' districts can be defined by voronoi textures, but we would have to snap boundaries to streets and such. Does that make sense to you?
If we can get that working, it would also provide us with a good system for National/Provincial borders. Three-dimensional inter-planetary/interstellar borders are still gonna be an absolute Belgium to make though. It's really hard for us humans to think in three dimensional space.

agreed. how do we want buildings structured in the city districts?
like the player places all the buildings? which means that their will be ugly spaces between the buildings, or do we want to use the players buildings to create a tighter sort of build? Just a suggestion.

wed have to ask roadkillguy if there was anyway to analyse a buildings geometry and reproduce similar ones in blocks and triangles.
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Sat Nov 05, 2011 4:35 am

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
I think that was the point, ido. If I understand the OP, the Voneroi function randomly generates us some polygons to play with, which can then be zoned either randomly or according to a specific function. (For instance, residential x distance away from industrial zones or more.)

Oh I got
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Sat Nov 05, 2011 5:12 pm

lbrewer wrote:
Tenebrarum wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
Yeah, I've been thinking of ways to zone using voronoi maps (one of which is how we plan to make country borders) The problem with zoning in cities is that even though they grow in unexpected ways, people living there are going to try to zone them based on a grid system, simply because grids really are the very best way that you can structure a city on. So large cities' districts can be defined by voronoi textures, but we would have to snap boundaries to streets and such. Does that make sense to you?
If we can get that working, it would also provide us with a good system for National/Provincial borders. Three-dimensional inter-planetary/interstellar borders are still gonna be an absolute Belgium to make though. It's really hard for us humans to think in three dimensional space.

agreed. how do we want buildings structured in the city districts?
like the player places all the buildings? which means that their will be ugly spaces between the buildings, or do we want to use the players buildings to create a tighter sort of build? Just a suggestion.

bumping for an answer from roadkill guy if it is possible in the game?
using the players buildings would mean analising buildings and creating similar ones to fit in the district without any gaps. It would be hard, and possibly quite ram hungry, but it would improve the anshetic of the game, and make cities look more like cities. As cities dont have large spaces between buildings mostly
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Sat Nov 05, 2011 7:16 pm

For simplicity, I'd say just put them on a 2d grid with roads in between. Make each building a cube. I don't see the problem.
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Mysterious_Calligrapher
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Sun Nov 06, 2011 9:16 am

We are modeling quite a bit already, aren't we?

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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Sun Nov 06, 2011 1:33 pm

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
We are modeling quite a bit already, aren't we?

I Want to make people Start Modeling and texturing

I think I will make a list of Models and Textures we need
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Mon Nov 07, 2011 1:36 am

ido66667 wrote:
Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
We are modeling quite a bit already, aren't we?

I Want to make people Start Modeling and texturing

I think I will make a list of Models and Textures we need
ill double that
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ido66667
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Mon Nov 07, 2011 5:32 am

lbrewer wrote:
ido66667 wrote:
Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:
We are modeling quite a bit already, aren't we?

I Want to make people Start Modeling and texturing

I think I will make a list of Models and Textures we need
ill double that

Yes.
You're Very Helpful guy
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Wed Nov 09, 2011 4:27 pm

roadkillguy wrote:
For simplicity, I'd say just put them on a 2d grid with roads in between. Make each building a cube. I don't see the problem.
yea but the cubs dont fit into a voranoi grid nicely, and we do want random city growth rather than a grid (we do right?) so there is our dilema
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:29 pm

lbrewer wrote:
roadkillguy wrote:
For simplicity, I'd say just put them on a 2d grid with roads in between. Make each building a cube. I don't see the problem.
yea but the cubs dont fit into a voranoi grid nicely, and we do want random city growth rather than a grid (we do right?) so there is our dilema
Nah. Most cities that grow very large will adopt a grid system to keep things running smoothly. Planned cities date back to ancient India around 2600 years ago.

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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Wed Nov 09, 2011 8:55 pm

Hrm, is it possible to apply different grid systems to different cities depending on their culture? More cultured places would have a more round or even temple like layout. Less civilized cultures would have more unorganized city lay out. And more economic/organized cultures (like most on earth) would have an organized grid.

I'm simply curious as I don't know to much about programming, but as long as all buildings have a square base it may work.
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PostSubject: Re: city big enought    Wed Nov 09, 2011 11:36 pm

Dr_Chillgood wrote:
Hrm, is it possible to apply different grid systems to different cities depending on their culture? More cultured places would have a more round or even temple like layout. Less civilized cultures would have more unorganized city lay out. And more economic/organized cultures (like most on earth) would have an organized grid.

I'm simply curious as I don't know to much about programming, but as long as all buildings have a square base it may work.
not sure but i think it would be as simple as changing the voranoi equation you use
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