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 Diplomacy Topic

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Admiral Van Tromp
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PostSubject: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 10:15 am

After bringing it up in the "Assigning Borders" topic, Commander Keen proposed a new thread for Diplomacy. I wanted to start it with a few ideas taken from the Total War, Civilization and Hearts of Iron game series (and some of my own):

How to begin negotiations with another nation?

My idea for the negotiations is that instead of being able to talk to other nations in a video conference style, you have to send an emissary (this could be another specialist for SCs) to an SC, specialist or MC of the other nation to begin negotiations. Of course, later on, I think the hability of talking via video conference could be attached as a research effect in some other research or, if we find it necessary, in a new research. The emessaries are obviously not bound to opened/closed borders.

Negotiation options:

When you begin negotiations, a screen appears, in it you can see two panels divided in and a number of options on the side of each one. One of the panels will list yourpart of the deal and the other side theirs.

There are various options you can bring to the table:

Declaration of War: self explanatory;

Cease Hostilities: stop a war for a certain amount of time (including indefenitly);

TO Production License: one of the sides lets the other produce a TO for a certain amount of time;

TO Shipment: one side offers the other a certain amount of TOs.

Concession: one of the sides requests to have a part of the other's territory (the player can draw in the enemy territory or click in an SC/MC/Specialist to ask just for it.

Open Borders: a side opens the borders for the other's specialists and TOs.

Alliance: both sides declare they are allied, immediatly opening the borders. And declaring war on one side's enemies when it attacks.

Loan: One side loans the other some currency or resources. (If the side that receives is at war, there is an option to make it be able to pay only after the war, if not it's paid montlhy in a % to be fixed).

Currency Tribute: One side offers the other some currency 1 time of monthly for a certain time. (the money can be either a fixed number or a % of the paying part gains per month).

Join war: one side joins the other's war with a certain nation(s).

Quit contract: one side promises to quit all contracts with the nation the other side dictates.

Cut relations: the emissaries of both sides aren't received in the other nation's territory until the one that cut the relations re-opens them.

Stop Contract: one side stops a contract it has with the other.

Share Knowledge: one side gives a technology it has researched to the other or information about what he knows of the world (species, geography, etc.)

Tenebrarum wrote:

Demand a nation to relinquish seized/invaded lands (of another nation).

Demand religious, political, or societal conversion.

Demand an SC, MC, or other territory.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

"Send Warning: Do not Attack: SmallNation"

"Send Warning: Cease Trade with: EnemyNation".


When you choose your offers and demands, you click a big button with send and the other part accepts of not.

Others

You can make an ultimatum to a nation by setting the offers and demands and then threaten it with war if the other nation doesn't accept. (The ultimatum button could be next to the regular "Send" button).

You can also bribe, making the other side more keen to accept.

Finally, if you conquer a whole nation, you can release some of it's former SC's and territories as Puppets. They'll have the same diplomatic relations as you.

[/long post]

Ideas, opinions, etc?


Last edited by Admiral Van Tromp on Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:43 am; edited 5 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:14 am

nood post. the only thing I don't like is alliances- I don't think it should require a declaration of war. That isn't how it happens in the real world, so it shouldn't happen that way in the game.

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Admiral Van Tromp
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 11:20 am

Good point, I'll change it.

EDIT: I also added this two:

Share Knowledge: one side gives a technology it has researched to the other.

Share Scientific Information: one side gives the other information about what he knows of the world (species, geography, etc.)

I need another effect for alliance or else it's just the same as opening the borders.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 12:41 pm

Admiral Van Tromp wrote:
Good point, I'll change it.

EDIT: I also added this two:

Share Knowledge: one side gives a technology it has researched to the other.

Share Scientific Information: one side gives the other information about what he knows of the world (species, geography, etc.)

I need another effect for alliance or else it's just the same as opening the borders.
It means that if one country is attacked, the other will defend it.

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Admiral Van Tromp
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:22 pm

Merged alliance with guarantee independence which was what you said.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:55 pm

This will work great. I only think Quit Contract and Stop Contract should be merged, as well as Share Knowledge and Share Scientific Information.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 1:58 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
This will work great. I only think Quit Contract and Stop Contract should be merged, as well as Share Knowledge and Share Scientific Information.

Thanks, I'll merge them.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 2:56 pm

How about we start a seperate list for vastly different government types? I believed it was agreed that insects after a very long time could grow in both size and intelligence so what about diplomacy between hiveminded species? I know it's a bit early to discuss but it can't be to different can it?
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Commander Keen
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Jul 25, 2011 4:15 pm

Each hivemind would behave more or less like a nation. It's complex enough as it is, we don't need to stress our programmers even more just to tailor diplomacy for hiveminds.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:25 pm

I like. All sounds good. But i think we also need an option for warning the other side. For instance, if they are moving their military towards a smaller nation, you could use "Send Warning: Do not Attack: SmallNation" or if they are funding one of your enemies "Send Warning: Cease Trade with: EnemyNation".

This would let them know that you disapprove of their actions, and should reduce the amount of discontent at home and reduce the diplomatic penalties associated with declaring war if they do not heed your warnings. Also, warning a lot of countries and never acting on it should result in nations becoming less likely to take you seriously.

And i'm not sure about the Emissary specialist. I'll see if i can come with anything better, but right now i'm thinking we just send a civilian that can be assumed to work within your government. Selecting "Send Emissary" when you've selected the nation in question should be enough to eject the emissary unit.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:09 pm

this is great, but picture this event happening. if my creatures nation is the strongest by far (picture other nations like native Americans and my like the U.S. NOW) i think what would be cool if they would be intimidated by me because i am far more advanced. and what about a united nations type thing would that be included?
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Wed Jul 27, 2011 1:45 am

US_of_Alaska wrote:
Three paragraphs

I agree with all of this.

Quote :
if my creatures nation is the strongest by far (picture other nations like native Americans and my like the U.S. NOW) i think what would be cool if they would be intimidated by me because i am far more advanced.

If you show your power (ie like the US is doing now by sending soldiers everywhere) then yes, this will gain you some respect.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Wed Jul 27, 2011 2:57 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
US_of_Alaska wrote:
Three paragraphs

I agree with all of this.

Quote :
if my creatures nation is the strongest by far (picture other nations like native Americans and my like the U.S. NOW) i think what would be cool if they would be intimidated by me because i am far more advanced.

If you show your power (ie like the US is doing now by sending soldiers everywhere) then yes, this will gain you some respect.
It will also make other nations want to ally or trade with you.

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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Wed Jul 27, 2011 3:31 pm

what about treaty's? some where very much needed (treaty of Versailles). can a nation back stab another nation? like lets say i have a truth with a nation after a long war (which i was losing) and then once i gained enough strength i attacked with out them thinking of that at all kinda like pearl harbor how would that work out? would other nations hesitate making deals with me?
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Wed Jul 27, 2011 4:49 pm

Yes, it's all possible with the system in OP. You would just have to get the other nation to accept your Cease Hostilities proposal, and then attack it later while simultaneously declaring war on them.
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Tenebrarum
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Sat Nov 12, 2011 11:45 pm

Ohey! This old thing must have popped up during an absence of mine!

So far, this looks great. Alaska's suggestions and Keen's alterations I agree with.

I'm toying with the idea of dealing with national reputations, which we're clearly referring to, but haven't seemed to really flesh out yet... Hmmm...

Quick additions:

Demand a nation to relinquish seized/invaded lands (of another nation).

Demand religious, political, or societal conversion.

Demand an SC, MC, or other territory.

In fact, why don't we just set it up so that you can request/demand that the opposing nation do any of the things you yourself can put on the table?
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:42 am

Tenebrarum wrote:
Ohey! This old thing must have popped up during an absence of mine!

So far, this looks great. Alaska's suggestions and Keen's alterations I agree with.

I'm toying with the idea of dealing with national reputations, which we're clearly referring to, but haven't seemed to really flesh out yet... Hmmm...

Quick additions:

Demand a nation to relinquish seized/invaded lands (of another nation).

Demand religious, political, or societal conversion.

Demand an SC, MC, or other territory.

In fact, why don't we just set it up so that you can request/demand that the opposing nation do any of the things you yourself can put on the table?
I'm liking that.

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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Sun Nov 13, 2011 6:08 pm

Me gusta tambien.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Nov 14, 2011 12:31 pm

Ich mag es auch.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Mon Nov 14, 2011 4:15 pm

Amasne?
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:26 am

I'll add that to the OP with other corrections I thought about. Thanks for the contribution.

Just as a side note, I've not been to active because the social sciences are really my strong suit and I didn't want to have my concepts interfiring with the developments in the cellular stage in course. However, there are more concepts I can study if you want.

EDIT: Added also some ideas form the first page form US of Alaska. I'm also thinking, we could allow more than two emissaries to meet to have some iternational treaties like the one we have thouought history like Paris after the Seven Years War and Versailles after WW1 or even the Treaty of Berlin where the great imperialistic powers litteraly divided the world just to name a few.
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PostSubject: Re: Diplomacy Topic   Tue Nov 15, 2011 5:50 pm

Admiral Van Tromp wrote:
I'll add that to the OP with other corrections I thought about. Thanks for the contribution.

Just as a side note, I've not been to active because the social sciences are really my strong suit and I didn't want to have my concepts interfiring with the developments in the cellular stage in course. However, there are more concepts I can study if you want.

EDIT: Added also some ideas form the first page form US of Alaska. I'm also thinking, we could allow more than two emissaries to meet to have some iternational treaties like the one we have thouought history like Paris after the Seven Years War and Versailles after WW1 or even the Treaty of Berlin where the great imperialistic powers litteraly divided the world just to name a few.
I think this could be a nice addition, although it might be hard to do. Actually, maybe not so much. In a two-way trade someone suggests and then the other accepts, or they make changes and the other accepts, or they make changes. I suppose having this move around in a circle, allowing each leader to have their say in the deal, until it is agreed upon by all. The AI would be the deal-breaker here, i think.
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