Government

US_of_Alaska wrote:

But we still need ways to decide on how to define what sort of government choosing or what sort of competition. For instance for government selection it might be hereditary or appointing a successor, and for competition it could be the fastest to complete a puzzle or who can win the most gladiator battles. We need to define this somehow.

True, appointing a successor could result in a better person than whoever happened to be the King's oldest child, while a great big test might be better than a tournament in finding the best and smartest.

DragonEye4 wrote:

True, appointing a successor could result in a better person than whoever happened to be the King's oldest child, while a great big test might be better than a tournament in finding the best and smartest.

Which reminds me, how will the way a leader is selected or who a leader is change the gameplay? Because the player will always be the leader, really.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

True, appointing a successor could result in a better person than whoever happened to be the King's oldest child, while a great big test might be better than a tournament in finding the best and smartest.

Which reminds me, how will the way a leader is selected or who a leader is change the gameplay? Because the player will always be the leader, really.

Hmm...

Well, democracy governments you might have to please the people, but other than that, I don't know....

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

True, appointing a successor could result in a better person than whoever happened to be the King's oldest child, while a great big test might be better than a tournament in finding the best and smartest.

Which reminds me, how will the way a leader is selected or who a leader is change the gameplay? Because the player will always be the leader, really.

Hmm...

Well, democracy governments you might have to please the people, but other than that, I don't know....

I guess the best way would be to make out that the player always controls the leader of the nation, and they get bonuses depending on who that leader is. Kind of like the governors in my SC concept had bonuses for their individual SCs, except it affects the whole nation.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

True, appointing a successor could result in a better person than whoever happened to be the King's oldest child, while a great big test might be better than a tournament in finding the best and smartest.

Which reminds me, how will the way a leader is selected or who a leader is change the gameplay? Because the player will always be the leader, really.

Hmm...

Well, democracy governments you might have to please the people, but other than that, I don't know....

I guess the best way would be to make out that the player always controls the leader of the nation, and they get bonuses depending on who that leader is. Kind of like the governors in my SC concept had bonuses for their individual SCs, except it affects the whole nation.

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

YourBreakfast wrote:

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

SCs are what is making Strategy Mode viable. Without it the player would be flooded with micromanagement. The Culture Editor is the editor that handles all aspects of your nation, from military policies to division of power to resource management to religious policies. It is available only through Strategy Mode.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

SCs are what is making Strategy Mode viable. Without it the player would be flooded with micromanagement. The Culture Editor is the editor that handles all aspects of your nation, from military policies to division of power to resource management to religious policies. It is available only through Strategy Mode.

Maybe we should call it something different, because it goes beyond the culture.

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

SCs are what is making Strategy Mode viable. Without it the player would be flooded with micromanagement. The Culture Editor is the editor that handles all aspects of your nation, from military policies to division of power to resource management to religious policies. It is available only through Strategy Mode.

Maybe we should call it something different, because it goes beyond the culture.

Nation? Society? Faction?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

SCs are what is making Strategy Mode viable. Without it the player would be flooded with micromanagement. The Culture Editor is the editor that handles all aspects of your nation, from military policies to division of power to resource management to religious policies. It is available only through Strategy Mode.

Maybe we should call it something different, because it goes beyond the culture.

Nation? Society? Faction?

I think Nation Editor or Politics Editor or something along those lines works best.

YourBreakfast wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Are we still going along with SCs? And could someone actually explain what the culture editor is? I just heard about this on the E! forums and now I'm lost.

SCs are what is making Strategy Mode viable. Without it the player would be flooded with micromanagement. The Culture Editor is the editor that handles all aspects of your nation, from military policies to division of power to resource management to religious policies. It is available only through Strategy Mode.

Maybe we should call it something different, because it goes beyond the culture.

Nation? Society? Faction?

I think Nation Editor or Politics Editor or something along those lines works best.

Nations or society, politics would not encompass the culture parts of the editor.

DragonEye4 wrote:

Nations or society, politics would not encompass the culture parts of the editor.

I think that it should be Nation Editor. Because personally i think that there needs to be a section in this editor that handles society and what the ruling classes are.

Oh boy...
I don't feel like reading this really nice discussion, so i'm going to do what i do with strategy mode and put Alaska in charge of it.

Make a good game, boys and girls.

Well can we please brainstorm and make a list of what we're able to do in the Culture Editor? I actually have no clue....

YourBreakfast wrote:

Well can we please brainstorm and make a list of what we're able to do in the Culture Editor? I actually have no clue....

LIST

-Set up exactly what policies your government has, and how the government will control the lives of their people.

-Set up the culture of the people. Religion, holidays, rituals, the type of clothes people wear will all be handled here.

-Not much else.

InvaderZim wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Well can we please brainstorm and make a list of what we're able to do in the Culture Editor? I actually have no clue....

LIST

-Set up exactly what policies your government has, and how the government will control the lives of their people.

-Set up the culture of the people. Religion, holidays, rituals, the type of clothes people wear will all be handled here.

-Not much else.

Actually there's a lot more. What objects people use, how they go about solving problems (do they use the scientific method, or just throw crap at it), what values they have, etc.

~sciocont wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

YourBreakfast wrote:

Well can we please brainstorm and make a list of what we're able to do in the Culture Editor? I actually have no clue....

LIST

-Set up exactly what policies your government has, and how the government will control the lives of their people.

-Set up the culture of the people. Religion, holidays, rituals, the type of clothes people wear will all be handled here.

-Not much else.

Actually there's a lot more. What objects people use, how they go about solving problems (do they use the scientific method, or just throw crap at it), what values they have, etc.

Okay, now I just feel dumb...

Maybe we should move the discussion of what all will be in the culture editor to another thread.

Consider it done

So, getting back on topic, did everyone like these adjustable things to be the Government Panel?

Alaska wrote:

Number of Leaders
The number of people that officially head the nation.
This would simply be a matter of selecting a number on a slider.

Leader Selection
This would define how the rulers ascend to power.
This will be tricky to define in the game, and i'm welcome to suggestions. So far i can only think of some sort of selection tree with all the possibilities of ascension to power we as game designers can think of.

Power
This would define how laws are enforced, made, dissolved and changed.
This would have an option for choosing what sort of involvement the leader has in the law-making process. I'm thinking maybe three sliders from 0% to 100%, all up the amounts would obviously have to equal 100%. The sliders would read Leader, People and Legislation Party. The player can adjust the sliders to their liking, with the right researches of course.

Legislation
This would handle the Legislation Party, and how they chosen.
This would be similar to the mechanic for 'Become Leader By'. This mechanic would change people's attitude towards the government and it's decisions, depending on the share of power the Legislation Party holds.

And are we happy with having traits and bonuses that correspond to the current leader of your nation?

If we've agreed on all this, then i think we should start brainstorming leader traits and ways for leaders and legislation party members to be elected.

Love 'em.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

So, getting back on topic, did everyone like these adjustable things to be the Government Panel?

Alaska wrote:

Number of Leaders
The number of people that officially head the nation.
This would simply be a matter of selecting a number on a slider.

Leader Selection
This would define how the rulers ascend to power.
This will be tricky to define in the game, and i'm welcome to suggestions. So far i can only think of some sort of selection tree with all the possibilities of ascension to power we as game designers can think of.

Power
This would define how laws are enforced, made, dissolved and changed.
This would have an option for choosing what sort of involvement the leader has in the law-making process. I'm thinking maybe three sliders from 0% to 100%, all up the amounts would obviously have to equal 100%. The sliders would read Leader, People and Legislation Party. The player can adjust the sliders to their liking, with the right researches of course.

Legislation
This would handle the Legislation Party, and how they chosen.
This would be similar to the mechanic for 'Become Leader By'. This mechanic would change people's attitude towards the government and it's decisions, depending on the share of power the Legislation Party holds.

And are we happy with having traits and bonuses that correspond to the current leader of your nation?

If we've agreed on all this, then i think we should start brainstorming leader traits and ways for leaders and legislation party members to be elected.

Perhaps we should also choose what laws are constitutional in the nation.

DragonEye4 wrote:

Perhaps we should also choose what laws are constitutional in the nation.

That's actually a brilliant idea. How do we do it?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

Perhaps we should also choose what laws are constitutional in the nation.

That's actually a brilliant idea. How do we do it?

Ummmm....

Maybe make categories laws can fall under, and then when making the nation choose what categories laws can be made on. Then we could have a slider, which says how much strength the law can be.
For example, if the category was business regulation, a low strength would mean they cannot make laws that highly regulate businesses, while if it was high strength they could have massive, precise regulation.

DragonEye4 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

Perhaps we should also choose what laws are constitutional in the nation.

That's actually a brilliant idea. How do we do it?

Ummmm....

Maybe make categories laws can fall under, and then when making the nation choose what categories laws can be made on. Then we could have a slider, which says how much strength the law can be.
For example, if the category was business regulation, a low strength would mean they cannot make laws that highly regulate businesses, while if it was high strength they could have massive, precise regulation.

Hmm... Maybe under the government tab we should have a range of sliders for all other tabs in the Nation Editor, and how high up they are is how much control the government has over that aspect of the nation?

pretty much everything i've stated for biological evolution will work with the evolution of government. except our species is the government, and the species environment are its people, and other trade/competitive nations.

the resource most important to government operation is taxation in its many forms. no matter what type of government you have, the hurdle for any of them is to gather the maximum amount of revenue in the form of taxation subject to the minimum amount of discouraged citizens. citizens want two things. to be left alone to contribute to society by whatever measure (good or bad), and the necessary security to fulfill their ambition.

so the object of the game here is equivalent to that of a species. how much resources can the government extract from its people before the people begin practicing civil disobedience or worse, civil war? this is really independent from the desired form of government the player wishes to have. so, regardless of what type of government you are, you will be faced with these challenges. for instance, the USA is suppose to be a constitutional republic. however, it is often called a democratic republic by some, and corporatist by others. so having a the choice of creating a label for the type of government you want to create is all fine and dandy, but i think it would be necessary for the engine to indicate when your government has changed from one type to another.

many of you have given ideas for characteristics that governments/nations may have. i believe it should be how those characteristics are managed which dictates what the type of government is, and allow the player to fall outside of the the framework of their chose form through their actions.