Crash Course Economics

Here is the list, categorized as I mentioned. I'll come back and edit in descriptions for each category afterwards.


Tools

Spoiler:

Machinery

Spoiler:

 
Structures

Spoiler:

 
Networks

Spoiler:

Wow, comprehensive list, but I do wonder why Flintlock and Musket Barrels are separate, aren't those the same thing? What makes them different enough that they are separate on the list? :?: :?: :?:

Flintlocks are for Arquebusiers, and Muskets for Musketeers. This is mostly something I picked up from Total War, in which Muskets are considered a later improvement over Arquebuses. Muskets would just have some small increases in accuracy and damage, although would weigh more. It is to reward players who continue to invest in Gunpowder even after they have discovered it. This would lead to them discovering Expert Gunpowder, which would unlock the Musket Barrel for them.

EDIT: Btw, I cannot think of a use for Particle Accelerators. They are one of the last ones under Structures. Anyone have any ideas?

NickTheNick wrote:

EDIT: Btw, I cannot think of a use for Particle Accelerators. They are one of the last ones under Structures. Anyone have any ideas?

Maybe building spaceship engines in space stage?

We should also decide which technologies or inventions unlock which FPs. So far I have this (when there is a - sign it means that the player requires both techs or inventions to get the FP):

Quote :

Tools
Torch-Fire
Handle-Interaction
Net-Weaving-Water Bound Gathering
Hammer-Stone Tools
Scythe-Agriculture-Crafting
Plough-Agriculture-Agricultural tools-Animal interaction
Spearhead-Weaponry-Stone crafting
Scout pack-Optics-Compass
Blowgun-Crafting
Dart Pouch-Weaving
Javelin-Millitary training-Projectile weapons
Javelin quiver- Everything the javelin requires + weaving
Saddle-Stirrup
Axe-Millitary training-smithing
Blade-Blades
Sling-Projectile weapons
Stone pouch- Weaving
Bow-Projectile weapons
Arrow quiver- Projectile weapons-weaving
Pickaxe-Mining-Stone crafting
Crossbow-Projectile weapons-Machinery-Engineering
Bolt quiver- Everything the crossbow requires + weaving
Climbing gear- ?
Cartography pack- Navigation-Optics-Paper
Amplifiers- Optics
Oculars- Again, optics?
Flintlock barrel- Gunpowder
Stock-Collection
Bullet pouch- Gunpowder-Weaving
Gun mount- Advanced firearms
Musket barrel- Advanced firearms lock
Rifled barrel-Rifling-Replaceable parts
Shotgun barrel-Heavy firearms-Advanced flintlock
Spy gear- Optics-Laser-Photography
Explosive-Explosives
Gas canister-Chemistry?
Gas protection- Chemical warfare?
Scoped rifled barrel- Everything the rifled barrel requires + optics\
Grip- Gunpowder
Machine gun barrel- Heavy firearms- Automatic weapons
Submachine gun barrel- Heavy firearms- Semi automatic weapons
Artillery barrel- Artillery
Assault rifle barrel- Heavy firearms- Automatic weapons

That's for the tools, opinions?

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

NickTheNick wrote:

EDIT: Btw, I cannot think of a use for Particle Accelerators. They are one of the last ones under Structures. Anyone have any ideas?

Maybe building spaceship engines in space stage?

Particle accelerators don't build things. Factories would be building spaceship parts.

@Tarpy: Oh I've already got a list of all the Researches and Inventions that unlock all of those FP's. You are very close in your suggestions. However, FP's only require one Research or Invention to be unlocked.

Great, can you show it? Also, I myself was also thinking when making the list that having more than one technology required for an FP too much.

PS I am a regular now

Particle accelerators can be used for a bunch of things. First one, they generate research towards any nuclear tecnology (and probably most of the advanced tecnologies). They are also used to generate antimatter, and any other compound out of energy.

@Tarpy: Here it is. Beware though, it's very long.  Nevermind, I can't seem to post the table on the forum, so here's a download link to it on a Word file.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/bs9r6u786gupa9r/Temporary.docx

Note that for some rows an FP isn't listed. This is because it is listing the variants of the previous FP.

@Dani: I like the anti-matter creation idea, but for compounds out of energy, I think we should save it for a later tech. Actually I'm worried that creating anti-matter might be too early for it as well. But I think giving a bonus specifically to nuclear techs would be strange, since there is no field for nuclear, only science, and also the nuclear techs aren't that plentiful for it to be a worthy bonus.

Well, the creation of anti-matter and matter in general requires the scientist to know what they are doing, on top of the particle accelerator. So you would need both it and the research for anti-matter.

For the science bonus, it can just generate science while it is runing, it doesent need to be specifically towards a particular discvery. (or we could make most advanced techs so the only way of generating science for it is to have the particle accelerators, which would force the player to build the CERN even though it is extremelly expensive)

NickTheNick wrote:

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

NickTheNick wrote:

EDIT: Btw, I cannot think of a use for Particle Accelerators. They are one of the last ones under Structures. Anyone have any ideas?

Maybe building spaceship engines in space stage?

Particle accelerators don't build things. Factories would be building spaceship parts.

I thinked about using particle acelleration for spaceship powering.

I could know how a particle accelerator could generate antimatter to fuel a spaceship, but i dont see how can it power things. Care to explain?

Daniferrito wrote:

I could how a particle accelerator could generate antimatter to fuel a spaceship, but i dont see how can it power things. Care to explain?

Sorry, i probaly expressed wrong. I thought about antimatter.

This thread died prematurely, it would be useful if we revived it. However, to increase overall efficiency, I suggest that we slightly change the rules.

There is a problem that Nick has recently brought up in another thread. The problem is too much concept, too little actual systems. People say (I in no means want to offend anybody) "The AI is going to be self learning" or "Leaf textures would be procedurally generated" while they have no clue on how would that even be implemented.

So, to tackle that problem we should make it that on this thread, whenever you are suggesting a new idea or feature, put in a spoiler the system how that would function, or better yet actual code. Don't just say something like "Leaf textures would be generated procedurally by taking the stars luminosity", but an actual, detailed system.

Now, since the FP thread already exists for discussing FP's, we should discuss the research/technology system and how it would be implemented.

First of all, how would technologies be unlocked?

You are probably saying "Oh that's easy just check if it has all pre-requests unlocked and if it has enough research points". But then I am going to ask you this: How are research points generated? Or how do you know that those generated research points are generated towards a specific technology?

Now, that brings us to the point where we actually have to discuss the in game systems.

You could just go for a very simple, but crude tactic.

You would have a so called 'focus technology' which would be, in fact, the technology that you are researching currently (like in civ). How would we determine this 'focus technology'? Well, the player would choose it, obviously. But how do we determine what technologies can the player choose? Something like this:

Spoiler:

To explain- Every time the player either researches a tech and then needs to choose a new one, or he changes his focus onto something else, the game will automatically check every technology in the game, and will then make available those that have all prerequests researched and haven't already been researched will become available. As I said it's a very crude system and needs to be refined.

Now, you guys should give your input here as well. No matter how little lines of code it is, if it is a system that we haven't discussed before- it's great. Others should try and find holes and or problems in these systems so we can refine them. So, here is a little list of what you could try and do:

Refining the current 'focus technology system'(if we are even going to use that kind of system)
System for generating research points
System for unlocking features of a technology
System for unlocking inventions

There are obviously many other things, those are just suggestions. Tomorrow I am going to try and develop a system for generating research points and completely changing the focus tech system (I have some ideas for it, but I am going to need to try and test them on paper). Input is always appreciated.

Actually, I suspended the thread so that we could work on the FP thread, and then I left that for the time being as I am still on a summer trip. I plan to keep this still episode based, and return to doing episodes when the FP thread is finished, but in the meantime I would be fine to discuss technology.

Now, I agree with your point of explaining ideas, but I think you are taking it a bit too far with your example, and I don't think every idea should be explained in code.

Techs are unlocked by reaching their threshold of RP. Like in Civilization, each tech costs a certain amount. When you reach or exceed that limit, that tech is unlocked. Research points are generated from buildings, and from triggers. Triggers are actions, done by your species' members, which generate RP towards a specific tech.

There are different ways RP can be generated. When a building gives RP, and not to any specific field or tech, that means the RP goes into a pool for the player to use. Every time the player chooses a Research Field, or a specific tech, the RP they have in their pool is spent either being randomly distributed amongst all the techs of that field, or all invested into that one specific tech that is selected. This kind of RP is the one you, the player, can invest. Some buildings give RP to fields of Research. This means that the player does not control where these RP are invested, and they will always just invest where they were designated to be invested in. Lastly, there are triggers. To give an example, every time the player organism gives a command to another species member, something like 30-50 RP is generated towards the Research Socialisation.

NOTE: Just to explain a little, I use the term "Tech" to refer to EITHER Researches or Inventions.

---

The player cannot at first choose to invest in any techs, or fields of research, or even view the research web. At first he can only generate RP through triggers. Later, with the discovery of Record Keeping, the Web can be viewed, and RP can be invested into fields of research. When a field is selected, all of the RP the player has is randomly distributed amongst those techs every tick. The player can choose any field at any time. The last change is with Scientific Method. At this point, the player gains the ability to invest into specific researches. If a research is discovered, the player can continue to invest into it to unlock its associated inventions. A player can never invest in a specific invention, and instead must just invest in that research and let the computer distribute the RP.

When choosing a specific research, the player can only choose a research that has already been discovered, or a research that is unlocked (i.e. all of its prerequisite researches have been unlocked).

I said when suggesting a new idea to explain the system as well, but even better to write in code (if they have any experience). Only code would of course be going too far, since only a handful of people here actually know any programming language. By explaining the system, I meant that they do something like I did after the spoiler.

So, should we leave this topic inactive until we finish the FP discussion or should we start it again?

Yeah I would finish the FPs first. This weekend I'll be able to get a lot done.

While we wait for the Function Parts Discussion to finish, here is a download link the latest version of the yEd Compound chart, showing all the compounds and compound processes in the game.

http://www.mediafire.com/download/u9md0f9c73aaggv/Compounds.graphml

This is basically the Periodic Table of Thrive, as all things in the game will be made of compounds, and this chart also shows all possible conversions of compounds into each other. There is a lot left to add, but a lot out of the way as well. Suggest any ideas you may have, and please offer ideas on the balancing of the processes if you can help there because I guessed most of them.

EDIT: You will have to download the yEd graphing program to view and edit this file (don't worry, it's free). Also, please feel free to suggest new processes I have failed to include.

There might also be issues with opening it, if my version is not the latest version. If so please say so and I will have to give a link to an updated download.