Function Part Discussion

NickTheNick wrote:

The problem is, how would we define what is dirt/grass? Where does it end?

We don't have to. Dirt and grass would have the same friction value.

No, I'm saying how would we define a plot of land as dirt OR grass? Will there be areas that will have permanent grass? Or permanent snow? Also, what about a transition between dirt and sand? When does the dirt stop and the sand start? It all seems very hazy to me.

Also, isn't this leading back to "We would have to calculate the acceleration of the vehicle every single time it enters a new type of environment", except replacing acceleration with speed?

Actually, the slope thing formula doesent look too good. It's not realistic. Here is the formula i've come up after filling about one page with physical formulas:

a = Fm*g*r*Cos(α)/m-g*Sin(α)

Where:

Fm is the raw force the motor outputs.
g is the gravity of the planet.
r is the friction coeficient between the wheel and the surface (i'm glad you alredy introduced this, as it was the concept i thought you would have most problems with)
α is the degree of the slope.
m is the mass of the vehicle.

(For all graphics, the left side is -90º (straight down) and the right side is 90º (straight up))
Here is how your formula behaves:

Spoiler:

Here is how my formula behaves:

Spoiler:

Finally, that acceleration is aplied to the vehicle each cycle, substracting the -acceleration that comes from air friction.

The only variable that comes from the wheel is r (friction). I would personally treat all surfaces as the same and only care about the wheel. r also modifies the turning speed (higher r means turning faster)

Edit: I managed to put the same graph for all images. It is fixed now.

Very good work. So motor force would be dependent on the engine used to power the vehicle, or animal to pull it. For the former case, engines will be covered as FP's, with a motor force value assigned to each variant.

Gravity would be determined from the creation of the planet during the PPG.

Like you said, I agree that friction of all surfaces should be constant. How would we find the friction of the wheel? Another compound property?

Slope degrees should be easy enough to find.

However, I think finding the mass of the vehicle should be specified. So, solid shapes or chunks of a single material, or compound, in the editor will have easily calculatable volumes, right? Either the player drags out a 3D shape, and changes its dimensions, and the volume is found off of that, or the computer can count the voxels, a concept I am not very familiar with. Then, using the density of whatever compounds they are made of, you use volume to find mass.

The problem starts when you get very irregular shapes, or objects that are hollow. I really don't know what the solution to that is.

Also, FP's are a special case. They shouldn't be too hard. We give them a set volume at the default size, and whenever the player enlargens, stretches, or shrinks it, we change the volume accordingly. Then, based on what its made of, we find mass.

Actually, I think it would be a more efficient to discuss vehicles on a different thread. On that thread, we could discuss how would vehicles behave in the world and that sort of stuff.

Should I make this thread, so we can continue with the actual FP work?

NickTheNick wrote:

Very good work. So motor force would be dependent on the engine used to power the vehicle, or animal to pull it. For the former case, engines will be covered as FP's, with a motor force value assigned to each variant.

Actually, each type of propulsion would need its own formula. This one only works for an internal motor powering the wheels. Other than that, we have:

[list][*]Rockets
[*]Propellers (what a strange name)
[*]Animal pulling
[*]Super-advanced ones, like teleportation, or an infinite improbablility drive

Cool, looks interesting!

You should make the thread. I think we have been discussing wheels and vehicles for a page now. Call it something like "Tech Object Propulsion".

Dani, be sure to post your formulas for each of those propulsion types on the new thread. I'll copy over any important equations.

Done.

Here is the link to that thread.

Tomorrow I'll sum up everything we have on the wheel and we can then continue.

Ok, i just posted all the formulas i can come up with on the other thread. They are rushed, so i might need to revise them, though.

Next thing for disscusion is, according to list, rope. Bassicaly, it would be used to connect stuff.

You could also use it to climb too, right?

Thriving Cheese wrote:

You could also use it to climb too, right?

Yes... But we first need some formulas. Im not sure exactly for what, ropes arent wheel, spear, or etc.

like

Code:

int Ropes_Durability( Rope_Thikness, Rope_Length, Material)
{
durability = (Material * Rope_Thikness) / (Rope_Length / 5);
return durability;
}

Durability would be, well be how durable rhe rope is, adn that's the kinda thing that I can think of for the ropes that would need an equation/formula?
The number 5 was just me improvising.
EDIT: Note that I'm not a pro at proggraming and math, there migth be a better solution for this (It's very likely) this was just an outcast.

EDIT AGAIN: Durability would kinda be for how heavy things it could bear, including someone climbing it.

Durability? What could we use that for?

One thing that might be usefull for ropes would be force suported (how much force it can do before breaking). Here comes handy the tensile strenght again.

Fs = Ts/A

Where:
Ts - Tensile strenght
A - Area of the rope

We dont NECESARLY need a formula for each FP. Also, you dont need to write C++ code for the formula. The only important line is the actual formula, the rest of the function will be based on the actual implementation.

Well, with Durability I kinda meant the same thing as force supported.

Thriving Cheese wrote:

Durability would kinda be for how heavy things it could bear, including someone climbing it.

Before we start discussing formulas for durability, let's first discuss what would the rope actually be used for and what formulas will there be.

Using rope and hook, you can make climbing hook.

Uses of rope-
Coonecting
Climbing
Electrycity coonection (If made from good material)

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Electrycity coonection (If made from good material)

Electrical wires would be used for that. Also, I'm pretty sure rope can only be made from one single type of material.

Tarpy wrote:

Also, I'm pretty sure rope can only be made from one single type of material.

Well, I thought chains would be counted as some kinda ropes, adn they can be made out of a lot of different materials...

Chains are a different function part, and ropes should, for the sake of simplicity, be treated as made from only one material.

I would personally treat chains, ropes, cables and all of that as the same fp. They basically do the same thing: Suport force along its axis.

Agreed. FP's should never be separated because of the material they are made of, if all functions and purposes are the same. We could make them variants of the same FP. It makes them both "sub-FP's" of the same FP, akin to picking between single-sided blades and double-sided blades when selecting a blade FP.

However, the more important question is what uses does a rope actually serve in game?

Electrical conductivity is for wires, not ropes. The question then becomes, however, should wires be a variant of ropes, like mentioned above? Or should they be a separate FP?

Connecting? What would you connect?

Climbing is not in the game.

Any other functions?

Actually, there are a few uses for ropes:

• Keeping a creature in place: From a captured animal, to a prisoner, or even keeping an astronaut on the outside of a spaceship from drifting away.
  
• Joining vehicles: As an alternative for a fixed conection. For example, to conect a horse to the vehicle it is pulling.
  
• On hanging bridges or other hanging structures. (Actually, by cables i was refering to the cables that keep hanging bridges on place, not wires.)

Uses for wires:

As we are not simulating the interior of the fp at all, all the wires can do is conecting electricity from a place to another. Probably in a similar way of how SimCity handles electricity.

I would treat cables wires as a diferent fp, made out of a connective material on the inside and an optional aislant material on the outside.

Okay, so rope can be used to restrain organisms. To put this in terms of the game, I think it should be that any unit equipped with a rope can restrain an animal. Animal pens will cover restraining animals in buildings. Prisons will handle restraining people in buildings.

Ropes for astronauts might be challenging to implement. How about any astronaut must be equipped with a rope to leave the spaceship? I'm reluctant to propose that for implementation, though, because it just seems like too much micromanagement.

Joining vehicles, easy enough.

For hanging structures, to what extent will we have a full physics, mechanics, and architecture simulator in the Tech Editor?

I agree with merging cables with ropes. We could just make it a later variant of ropes that has more tensile strength.

I don't understand, for the last sentence did you say cables by accident? Did you mean wires?

Also, as a basic restriction for the FP, ropes and cables can only be made of compounds tagged as "fibrous", and chains only out of metals.