Function Part Discussion

Its reel.
Reel is an object around which lengths of another material (usually long and flexible) are wound for storage. Generally a reel has a cylindrical core and walls on the sides to retain the material wound around the core. In some cases the core is hollow, although other items may be mounted on it, and grips may exist for mechanically turning the reel.


Basicaly, it would be used to store ropes and wires. Anything more?

Useless FP. Having a whole separate type of storage for ropes and wires would be overdoing it. Ropes and wires will be stored like everything else in the game.

Is that it? No one has any ideas for reels?

Guess not. Should we delete them?

We probaly should.
If we do, next FP is plough.
Plough is a tool (or machine) used in farming for initial cultivation of soil in preparation for sowing seed or planting to loosen or turn the soil. Ploughs are drawn either by bullocks or other animals such as horses or camels or through a tractor. A plough may be made of wood or iron. It has been a basic instrument for most of recorded history, and represents one of the major advances in agriculture.
The primary purpose of ploughing is to turn over the upper layer of the soil, bringing fresh nutrients to the surface, while burying weeds, the remains of previous crops, and both crop and weed seeds, allowing them to break down. It also aerates the soil, allows it to hold moisture better and provides a seed-free medium for planting an alternate crop. In modern use, a ploughed field is typically left to dry out, and is then harrowed before planting.
Ploughs were initially human powered, but the process became considerably more efficient once animals were pressed into service. The first animal powered ploughs were undoubtedly pulled by oxen, and later in many areas by horses (generally draught horses) and mules, although various other animals have been used for this purpose. In industrialised countries, the first mechanical means of pulling a plough were steam-powered (ploughing engines or steam tractors), but these were gradually superseded by internal-combustion-powered tractors.


Bassicaly, ploughs will be used in agriculture as faster, mechanical/animal/farmer powered ''version'' of hoe. They can be wooden, metal, or mechanic.

(My idea)
Wooden would give least bonus to aggriculture, metal would give ''middle'' speed, and mechanic would give massive boost. They will also be able to be pluged on animals or machines for even faster effect.

I dont think they are worth it as well.

Ploughs:

We might want to merge hoes into this one, as the purpouse is similar. I like your idea, but i would change it a bit:
There are wooden and metal. The efficiency again depends on how good the material is (i dont remember how did we ended up calling that value)
In order to use them, one must pull them. Depending of the lenght of the plough, there would be more force needed. Anything can pull from them, but strong animals or machinery are the easiest way once you get them.

If we set a speed for ploughs of about 1m/s, the area covered by it each second should be 1*L (where L is the lenght of the plough), provided the pulling method is strong enough for it.

The effect of ploughed land could be increased yield, depending on how good the material is.

@WilliamsTheJohn

It doesn't help much to just copy and paste from wikipedia. I'm pretty sure we all have the ability to just go and read that for ourselves. What is important is to discuss how to take what it is in real life and turn that into something in the game.

I think that Hoe and Plough should be kept separate, or only one or the other be implemented. A hoe would be a tool that you attach to a handle, and would be used by units to till a piece of land.

A unit equipped with a Hoe TO would have a little ability in their interface that, when clicked, would prompt the player to drag a box. After designating the area to be tilled, the unit would go and move from one spot to another as they undergo whatever animation we gave them, until the area is done. That area would remain tilled for specific period of time until it would fade back to being normal. Plants grown on tilled ground would grow at double speed.

Ploughs, on the other hand, would be a piece of machinery, not a tool that a unit could equip (Remember that a hoe can only be equipped when attached to a handle in the Tech Editor). A plough would have to be tethered to a unit or organism, and be draged, or it could be attached to a vehicle that, when powered, would till the soil.

Ideas?

NickTheNick wrote:

@WilliamsTheJohn

It doesn't help much to just copy and paste from wikipedia. I'm pretty sure we all have the ability to just go and read that for ourselves. What is important is to discuss how to take what it is in real life and turn that into something in the game.

I think that Hoe and Plough should be kept separate, or only one or the other be implemented. A hoe would be a tool that you attach to a handle, and would be used by units to till a piece of land.

A unit equipped with a Hoe TO would have a little ability in their interface that, when clicked, would prompt the player to drag a box. After designating the area to be tilled, the unit would go and move from one spot to another as they undergo whatever animation we gave them, until the area is done. That area would remain tilled for specific period of time until it would fade back to being normal. Plants grown on tilled ground would grow at double speed.

Ploughs, on the other hand, would be a piece of machinery, not a tool that a unit could equip (Remember that a hoe can only be equipped when attached to a handle in the Tech Editor). A plough would have to be tethered to a unit or organism, and be draged, or it could be attached to a vehicle that, when powered, would till the soil.

Ideas?

I copy pasted from wikipedia so we can have info we need on one place.
I like the ideas, though.

Hey guys, sorry for being absent here again. I'm on vacation, and I had no internet connection for several days now. Since I'm still on vacation, and any type of connection I get is only temporary, don't expect me to be here as often for the next few months.

Also, I'll now take a look at the FP list. I really need to finish it completely so that we don't waste our time just going through useless FP's. In my next post, I'll say how I would like to change the FP list.

After examining the list, here is what I think we should remove or merge:

Reel-Useless. Rope would be stored in stockpiles like any other FP
Scythe-It makes more sense to me that this be merged with plough
Burial chamber-Useless, but maybe it could be used as decor?
Water tap- Relatively useless
Cog-We won't be making a physics simulator here, so I think we should leave this out
Lever and button should be merged, however, I'm not even sure if they should be on the list at all
Metal wire-Absolutely useless
Book-Should be renamed to bookshelf and used as decor (and perhaps something else?)
Alchemy set-Not sure of it's use
Cannonball-Merged with a new class called ammunition
Thermometer-Useless
Electro-Magnet-We're not making a physics simulator, so I am not sure about this
Tank gun-Renamed to turret
Typewriter-Useless
Torpedo-Merged with ammunition
Film projector-Completely useless
Television case merged with television screen
Electric microscope- Is this useless?
AA installation- This sounds more like a tech object than function part
Bomb-merged with ammunition
Virus container-Useless
Bio-warfare lab- Just lab

Ammunition would basically be a highly customizable FP, ranging from arrows to homing missiles and nukes.

Tell me your opinions on these changes, as we really need to finish cleaning up the FP list.

So you think scythes should be merged, as does Dani, but I and WilliamsTheJohn both opt for keeping both, and everyone else seems to be silent. We should decide on this now. Should we merge them or have them separate?

I agree with most of your proposals save for these few:

Metal Wire (Which I thought was just called Wire) - I think that is referring to wires for conducting electricity, and if that is the case, that is important.
I think Burial Chamber and Bookshelves should both be chopped.
I disagree with the new Ammunition idea, since I think ammunition like arrows, bullets, and cannonballs should be discarded, and the rest amalgamated into a customizable FP called Missile, or several customizable FPs with different names.
Let me explain the first point. If you have ever played Age of Empires, Empire Earth, Empire at War, Command and Conquer, Warcraft, Starcraft, Total War, Supreme Commander, Company of Heroes, World in Conflict, Rise of Nations, or any other decent RTS game out there, ammunition is not kept track of. The only game I can recall having that is Men of War, and that game has too much micro. I think that having to keep track of the ammunition of your soldiers would introduce plenty of micromanagement, as well as a level of detail we are not aiming for. I think it is just simpler for everyone to just imply that the player has the ammo they need and let them shoot indefinitely. Otherwise, the player would have to constantly go across the map refilling his units with ammo, devote whole factories to produce this ammo, transport this ammo to his soldiers, and have a hell of work to do replacing all this whenever a new type of ranged weapon or ammo is developed. I am open to hearing arguments for the other side, but I think it is better it be dropped.
I think artillery/tank guns should be kept independent of turrets. 
Do we need television screens?
Were there no other FPs called Lab or Laboratory?

NickTheNick wrote:

So you think scythes should be merged, as does Dani, but I and WilliamsTheJohn both opt for keeping both, and everyone else seems to be silent. We should decide on this now. Should we merge them or have them separate?

I think we should keep scythe and plough as separate FP's, beacuse scythe will be only hanheld, but plough will be attachable to animals and machines, meaning that scythe would be more a tool.

Metal Wire-Sorry, when I was making that post I thought we already had an electrical wire FP, but now that I look at the list, it turns out we haven't got it. So we shall leave metal wires, definitely.
Alright, I just thought on leaving the bookshelves and burial chamber as decor as I said, but since we won't be having interior, I guess they are useless after all.
I thought about ammo being the same as missiles, I never meant having to actually replenish your units ammo. Basically yes, missile would be highly customizable and depending on technology, it could get more and more advanced.

On the plough problem- I thought of merging scythes and plough, but they would both be sub-FP's of that new FP, so you would still be able to choose between the plough and scythe. Not merging them would be the same thing, the only difference being that they are now fully independent of each other.

To me, this is not really even that important, we'll discuss the use of the plough anyway, since whether merged or not, it will still be in the game.

Also, I'll make a poll on merging these to or leaving them separate, so we can focus on other things.

Updated the FP list.

Actually, in my opinion scythes and ploughs are quite diferent. Ploughs are used to prepare the land for planting, while scythes are used for colecting the alredy grown plants. Another thing would be hoes and ploughs, as they both are used to tilt the land.

My vote is keping them separate, either by two diferent fp, or a single fp with two specializations.

Daniferrito wrote:

Actually, in my opinion scythes and ploughs are quite diferent. Ploughs are used to prepare the land for planting, while scythes are used for colecting the alredy grown plants. Another thing would be hoes and ploughs, as they both are used to tilt the land.

My vote is keping them separate, either by two diferent fp, or a single fp with two specializations.

I agree with Dani. (thanks to my vote it's now leading with 1/1 votes = 100%!)

Daniferrito wrote:

Actually, in my opinion scythes and ploughs are quite diferent. Ploughs are used to prepare the land for planting, while scythes are used for colecting the alredy grown plants. Another thing would be hoes and ploughs, as they both are used to tilt the land.

My vote is keping them separate, either by two diferent fp, or a single fp with two specializations.          

Now that I look at it, I completely agree. I guess my vote is to separate them now, and I suppose most people would agree. Still Im gonna leave the poll just a bit more. Maybe someone has got an argument to merge them.

Either way, its not even that important, its like arguing whether Pluto is a planet or not.

My thoughts;

Reel = Don't fishing rods need these?

TV/Projector = good for morale boost, though could be turned into 'entertainment', then have all other forms of entertainment as sub-options within it.


Burial Chamber = Make it an exterior structure. Or just change to a research item that helps lower disease? Also, it not only keeps robbers OUT, it keeps the dead IN. Just from what I heard about zombie, this could be good to keep everyone from getting eaten...


Bookshelf = change to library, later upgraded to 'archives'?


Scythe and plough are definitely not the same tool. If you fuse it with anything, it would be 'blades'.

Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox wrote:

My thoughts;

Reel = Don't fishing rods need these?

TV/Projector = good for morale boost, though could be turned into 'entertainment', then have all other forms of entertainment as sub-options within it.


Burial Chamber = Make it an exterior structure. Or just change to a research item that helps lower disease? Also, it not only keeps robbers OUT, it keeps the dead IN. Just from what I heard about zombie, this could be good to keep everyone from getting eaten...


Bookshelf = change to library, later upgraded to 'archives'?


Scythe and plough are definitely not the same tool. If you fuse it with anything, it would be 'blades'.

Reel-Again, too much micromanagment. Making the player actually have to assemble a fishing rod would be too much. Also, fishing rods aren't even that useful. They are far less efficient than nets. For a fishing rod, you will need bait, time and you will catch much, much less fish then a net.

Film Projector-Not sure what you mean by entertainment, but I think everyone here would agree that film projectors are way too insignificant.

Burial chamber- Making the players have to build structures to store the dead would generally be a suicide for the quality of gameplay.

Archives- I partially agree on this one

Back on topic now- ploughs

WilliamTheJohn's suggestion is good, but can someone give me the current concept of farming so we can apply ploughs to that?

On a side note, I'm not sure whether this is a bug or not, but the forum thinks that 'plough' is misspelled

Tarpy wrote:

Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox wrote:

My thoughts;

Reel = Don't fishing rods need these?

TV/Projector = good for morale boost, though could be turned into 'entertainment', then have all other forms of entertainment as sub-options within it.


Burial Chamber = Make it an exterior structure. Or just change to a research item that helps lower disease? Also, it not only keeps robbers OUT, it keeps the dead IN. Just from what I heard about zombie, this could be good to keep everyone from getting eaten...


Bookshelf = change to library, later upgraded to 'archives'?


Scythe and plough are definitely not the same tool. If you fuse it with anything, it would be 'blades'.

Reel-Again, too much micromanagment. Making the player actually have to assemble a fishing rod would be too much. Also, fishing rods aren't even that useful. They are far less efficient than nets. For a fishing rod, you will need bait, time and you will catch much, much less fish then a net.

Film Projector-Not sure what you mean by entertainment, but I think everyone here would agree that film projectors are way too insignificant.

Burial chamber- Making the players have to build structures to store the dead would generally be a suicide for the quality of gameplay.

Archives- I partially agree on this one

Rod and Reel - But what about making the rod in the Tech Editor? What if a player wants to make their own gear like that?

Projector - They come before TVs, and they can be used as a morale boost. .3. 
Also, could be later upgraded to produce holograms, so people can't write graffiti on your statues. Because their holograms. .3.

It would just be for decoration, unless of course, the zombie thing I read about can happen. .3.

I would just like to say that that was a big mistake on my part. What I meant was that we should decide whether to merge hoe and plough. Scythe and plough are obviously distinct enough to be separate. To reach a compromise, I would be willing to make hoe and plough two variants of the FP plough.

@Doctor

If we include fishing rods, reels will be implied within the fishing rod.

I agree with Tarpy on the rest of the FPs.

I thought we already had a library, but if we didn't, that is a very good idea.

@Tarpy

I just posted on the last page my idea of the concept for ploughs and hoes. Here it is:

Quote :

A hoe would be a tool that you attach to a handle, and would be used by units to till a piece of land.

A unit equipped with a Hoe TO would have a little ability in their interface that, when clicked, would prompt the player to drag a box. After designating the area to be tilled, the unit would go and move from one spot to another as they undergo whatever animation we gave them, until the area is done. That area would remain tilled for specific period of time until it would fade back to being normal. Plants grown on tilled ground would grow at double speed.

Ploughs, on the other hand, would be a piece of machinery, not a tool that a unit could equip (Remember that a hoe can only be equipped when attached to a handle in the Tech Editor). A plough would have to be tethered to a unit or organism, and be draged, or it could be attached to a vehicle that, when powered, would till the soil.

I spell it plough. This forum has an American bias (I'm not sure if plow is American spelling, but I do know that words like Honor, Labor, and Rigor are). 

@Doctor

Just because a possible player might want a feature in game doesn't warrant adding it. Customizing fishing poles is really an insignificant detail for this stage of the game, or for any stage for that matter, or possibly for any game other than a fishing simulator.

Both projectors and TVs are unnecessary. Graffiti will not be in the game.

There is no point for a Burial Chamber FP if it is simply for decoration. The player can just create a room and imagine that it is a Burial Chamber.

Alright, I'm pretty sure that it is safe to call scythes and ploughs two separate FP's, but now what about hoes and ploughs?

In my opinion, hoes and ploughs should also be separated, as hoe is relatively slower and equipable to units, its a tool, but plough isnt.
Another suggestion is that FP's Plough, scythe and hoe will be sectioned as farming FP's. That would make this more organized.

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Another suggestion is that FP's Plough, scythe and hoe will be sectioned as farming FP's. That would make this more organized.

No we won't be categorizing FP's in that fashion. They will instead be grouped into Tools, Machinery, and Structures. Check out the this page of the Crash Course Economics thread (which is only suspended until we finish this thread).

Unlike scythes and ploughs, hoes and ploughs have the same use. Hoes are, however, handheld and ploughs are run either by machinery or animals.

Should I make another poll regarding this?