Function Part Discussion

The more I think about this, the more I think we just have buildings at the same size, so all houses will be more or less the same size.

Same conclusion I came to.

Can we confirm that then? I don't really see a viable alternative anyway.

Well I would like to see what Tarpy thinks, as he is quite a useful member for our Strategy team.

I can see the problems with different sizes now, since I was wrong when I first thought that only houses need to be equal to or larger in size. As you said, smaller creatures can still use stuff like libraries, theatres etc since really they would only need to tweak the interior a little bit but not casting plants, smithies etc since they would be too small to operate the machinery.

That's not the only problem. If houses had different sizes, and we went for the hitpoint system discussed in the build rates thread, than there would be no difference in health between a building of a very small creature and the completely same, but much larger version of the building of a larger creature.

Although it might not be as interesting or realistic as with non-constant sizes, I agree we should take the standard size approach. If I had to choose between less realism and less player comfort, in this case I would choose less realism.

So, standard size is 3*3*2 m, as you said, right?

Yes, that's the right size.

So, is there anything else on the housing FP?

That's all I got, just a boost to pop cap per additional volume past the minimum dimensions.

So, that's it for the housing I guess. Which FP should we discuss next?

Tools: Scout Pack
Machinery: Oars
Structures: Crafting hut
Networking: Wall

I think oars are most important. Heres a idea how they could work: Researching Oars should boost speed of boats by 20%

Well, if the ship doesn't have sails or oars it won't be able to move at all.

Oars must be operated (although this doesn't really matter, we'll just assume that there are enough people on the ship to operate it), and depending on the strength of your creatures and the mass of your ship, will increase the speed (not by a percent, but by a number)

Sails would just need winds to move, although if you only had sails, you would have very little control of your ship. Now, I don't know how wind would work, or if it would be implemented at all, but sails would also give a bonus to speed, depending on wind speeds and the mass of the ship.

It would perhaps be easier if we took an example. Say, a trireme. I have gathered some info on them (average and max speed, number of oars and people operating them and the amount of sails).

It could go the speed of 11.5 knots (6 m/s), although average speed was 7.37 knots (3.8 m/s). They had about 170 oarsmen and oars, and 2 triangular sails (I think).

If someone could find me the mass/dimensions (which I could not find at all), maybe we could try and develop some kind of formula using this as an example.

I think oars would be included when boats are unlocked, and then have sails as a further upgrade. Though I can't see wind being implemented really, so I say sails just boost the speed regardless of wind direction (because there won't be any).

We could have rudder as an upgrade to improve turning speed?

Inca wrote:

I think oars would be included when boats are unlocked, and then have sails as a further upgrade. Though I can't see wind being implemented really, so I say sails just boost the speed regardless of wind direction (because there won't be any).

We could have rudder as an upgrade to improve turning speed?

 Here is a link to the tech editor wiki page, you can check out the full table of function part technological pre-requests. Oars are unlocked with the discovery of boating, so as soon as you start making boats, you'll already have oars available.

As you said, sails should just give a speed boost, while rudders would make the ship much more agile.

But we are getting ahead of ourselves, we should be discussing oars.

So, we need a formula how 1 oar would affect your speed? Anyone have an idea?

Ah ok.

Erm, well a trireme has about 130 oars and can go at about 17km/h, so 1 oar has a speed of 130m/h roughly. But trireme's are built for speed, so we might want to lower it or find another ship to measure against to find a good average.

After doing some calculating, I got 100 N of force exerted by a humanoid with one oar. Since organisms with more muscles will have more mass, I don't think we need to factor in strength, so i think we could just leave it at that.

An oar exerts 100N of force perpendicular to the direction of placement. (We can ignore the unbalanced oars causing turning issue)

Tarpy wrote:

Well, if the ship doesn't have sails or oars it won't be able to move at all.

Ships wont be able to move without oars, they are to heavy, but small boats (Example: Fishing boats), can be, if players creature has anough strenght to do that, be moved using hands as oars. But that would be very slow.

NickTheNick wrote:

After doing some calculating, I got 100 N of force exerted by a humanoid with one oar. Since organisms with more muscles will have more mass, I don't think we need to factor in strength, so i think we could just leave it at that.

An oar exerts 100N of force perpendicular to the direction of placement. (We can ignore the unbalanced oars causing turning issue)

Sounds good to me

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Ships wont be able to move without oars, they are to heavy, but small boats (Example: Fishing boats), can be, if players creature has anough strenght to do that, be moved using hands as oars. But that would be very slow.

Actually, ships with sails can move without oars. It was how Columbus reached the New World. However, oars would only be effective in shallow/calm waters. In deeper and stormier water, oars are useless.

Also, we need to think of a way of making the players not be able to traverse oceans right away, so that they could end up getting "New World" experiences as happened on Earth.

Why don't we just make the seas too hard to traverse. Then when your boat tech is up to a level, we basically just unlock it and let them cross.

But what depth would we mark off as too deep?

Erm just like a few hundred meters out to sea or something, I really don't know

So, um, just a quick question, on what I saw on the new wiki, what exactly does the 'spy gear' entail? And does it include listening devices/bugs?

To discuss what it does is jumping wayy ahead of ourselves. However, my concepts for it are that it would maybe extent LoS and give the unit partial concealment. It actually happens to be one of the few FP's I cannot specifically remember as to why I included it.

Inca wrote:

Why don't we just make the seas too hard to traverse. Then when your boat tech is up to a level, we basically just unlock it and let them cross.

Diseases, lack of food on ship, storms.

Navigation aswell. In the first stages there would be only navigation near coasts, because you woudn't know how to sail with the help of the sun and/or the stars and/or a compass. After some time, you have to learn new navigation methodes, to travel the seas.

In the direct control mode, i could imagine, that you can go out, but wouldn't see any information about the directions, so would be completly clueless in what direction you drive. And by a realistic boat simulation, you wouldn't drive a straight line even if you don't steer.

For the strategic mode there are some more question, how to do it:
1. Possible would be a limited control and visible range depending on your technology. (Donno if something like this has already be suggested.)
a. One way would be, that the unit returns into control area automaticly, if it can, after it did the job it was ordered.
b. Possible you could take control over the unit directly even if its outside your range and if you manage to get it back then, you would be able to control it in strategic mode again.
2. Your unit can't exit the coast range.