Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

Silver Sterling wrote:

I don't have anything against a god mode and i think its a nice gameplay. Aswell i talked about it as a way to god mode, and not some way to manipulate the universe with meditation, etc.
But talking about the godmode of the game and telling then that mysticism and spirituality is to unreliastic for the game and the game is about realistic, is a completly invalid argument.
Because having a energy beeing, who can transform and manipulate stuff with their mind, because they ascent to a godlike being, IS actually mysticism and spirituality.

The God-Mode of the game is to allow the player to do whatever they want now that they have "finished" the game. It is not a question of realism or not, just like RTS control is not a question of realism or not. Spiritualistic mysticism and meditation, on the other hand, as you suggested, would occur when the player is still not in God-Mode, which is why it would be grossly unrealistic and inconsistent with the rest of the game.

Ascension is not equal to mysticism and spirituality.

I'll say this again. Please keep this thread, at the moment, to finish the gathering discussion, and then the tech trigger discussion, before we move to open topics like this. Let me quote the OP:

Quote :

This thread will be open to just about any topic on the Strategy Mode that isn't covered elsewhere, but do try to not interrupt ongoing discussions with new discussions.

NickTheNick wrote:

The God-Mode of the game is to allow the player to do whatever they want now that they have "finished" the game. It is not a question of realism or not, just like RTS control is not a question of realism or not. Spiritualistic mysticism and meditation, on the other hand, as you suggested, would occur when the player is still not in God-Mode, which is why it would be grossly unrealistic and inconsistent with the rest of the game.

Ascension is not equal to mysticism and spirituality.

Well, i took meditation only to have something to keep the creatures busy. So sitting around without producing anything. It only belongs from the non game area in this topic.
Meditation has nothing to do with magic. It was meant as a way to ascension.
(Think about it like developing something in the culture sciene and have an option to set them to meditate, that they create a large pool of points, who is needed to actually ascend. In my idea they actually would decrease aswell without doing something in the direction anymore. Then additional things i suggested, was to make things more difficult and break up the whole process, if the player isn't consequent.)
So what i suggested was a way to get to ascension. Without reaching it, it wouldn't give you any advance. Yust some work you have to do first, for balancing issures. If there will be multiple ways of ascension be included, sometime in the future, no way should be easier as the other one. How this could look exactly in detail is indeed something i would think about earliest, when we have at least a workable version of the game with all stages.

NickTheNick wrote:

I'll say this again. Please keep this thread, at the moment, to finish the gathering discussion, and then the tech trigger discussion, before we move to open topics like this.

Well for now i only answer your post. And even if you the idea is nothing for the games, i am not to happy, if peoples get the idea wrong. But i think we have actually now the same thinking. I never tought about unlocking any "mysticism" abilities before god-mode. We had this discussion already years ago and the result was, that something like this is better keeped in a mod. So i think we had a light misunderstanding here.

So i have to agree, that there are no reason for future discussion about this. I personally think awell, that we should keep many non basic things out, to get the basic game done so fast how possible. Other things could be included modular after the release of the first version aswell. Even by mods, what would work only, when peoples have something to play with.

And now, i will stop the discussion about this in the thread and even ignore a following post from you. :p

Moved to Misc thread.

I am not too sure about exactly what you are saying for much of your post, but from what I understand I would like to say that meditating is not enough to achieve ascension. Unless there is compelling evidence otherwise, it's a no go. Generating pools of meditation points just sounds, to be straightforward, ridiculous to implement in Thrive.

In the context of Thrive, ascension is the transferring of your consciousness to pure energy. Meditation would do nothing to help achieve that goal.

NickTheNick wrote:

I am not too sure about exactly what you are saying for much of your post, but from what I understand I would like to say that meditating is not enough to achieve ascension. Unless there is compelling evidence otherwise, it's a no go. Generating pools of meditation points just sounds, to be straightforward, ridiculous to implement in Thrive.

WJacobC wrote:

In the context of Thrive, ascension is the transferring of your consciousness to pure energy. Meditation would do nothing to help achieve that goal.

Yea, thats actually what i meant with the additional balancing stuff. As example, the perfect harmony with the nature, completly peaceful living, no destruction of the environment and the decreasing meditation pool over time. Additional barriers would be possible aswell.
Meditation would be a part of the process. But alone, it would be way to easy to get to ascension. So it would have to be balanced out, to be an alternative way and not a easier way.
My idea is indeed way beyond well-elaborated. But i think such a mechanic can wait until we have a working alpha from the whole game and this will still take some time.

@NickTheNick
Well i doesn't exactly know, what you mean with compelling evidence, but if you mean some more further background infos, there are indeed some articles about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_%28esotericism%29

There are even quantum physicist, like Dr. Michael König (even a german physicist), who worked out a working physic model behind it, based on the models of Jean Émile Charon and Burkhard Heim. Ok, there are aswell other science peoples like the Bio-physican Dieter Broers who are working on it and most likely additional ones, i never heard from.

Michael König has a nice book, but i don't know, if it is aswell avaible in english. I got the german version of it. And yes, i even read it completly, even when i am not a big physic book reader. ^^
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/3942166119/page-1/
Thats aswell the book i got the information about the increasing of the energy vibration by meditation and the way to ascension.
Ok, i have already known a lot about it, before i read the book, but from a more esoteric, mystic and spiritual way, and not from a hardcore quantum physic way like in the book, who destroyed a lot of the mysticism of it.

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/God_and_Quantum_Physics
Some additional informations about it.

Silver Sterling wrote:

Yea, thats actually what i meant with the additional balancing stuff. As example, the perfect harmony with the nature, completly peaceful living, no destruction of the environment and the decreasing meditation pool over time. Additional barriers would be possible aswell.
Meditation would be a part of the process. But alone, it would be way to easy to get to ascension. So it would have to be balanced out, to be an alternative way and not a easier way.
My idea is indeed way beyond well-elaborated. But i think such a mechanic can wait until we have a working alpha from the whole game and this will still take some time.

Perfect harmony with nature, completely peaceful living, and no destruction of the environment do not qualify to ascend a species. Meditation points is a bad idea, and does not fit in with Thrive. Stop suggesting how difficult it is do achieve. That is not why it is being rejected. It is being rejected because it is terribly unrealistic.

Silver Sterling wrote:

@NickTheNick
Well i doesn't exactly know, what you mean with compelling evidence, but if you mean some more further background infos, there are indeed some articles about it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_%28esotericism%29

There are even quantum physicist, like Dr. Michael König (even a german physicist), who worked out a working physic model behind it, based on the models of Jean Émile Charon and Burkhard Heim. Ok, there are aswell other science peoples like the Bio-physican Dieter Broers who are working on it and most likely additional ones, i never heard from.

Michael König has a nice book, but i don't know, if it is aswell avaible in english. I got the german version of it. And yes, i even read it completly, even when i am not a big physic book reader. ^^
http://www.abebooks.co.uk/book-search/isbn/3942166119/page-1/
Thats aswell the book i got the information about the increasing of the energy vibration by meditation and the way to ascension.
Ok, i have already known a lot about it, before i read the book, but from a more esoteric, mystic and spiritual way, and not from a hardcore quantum physic way like in the book, who destroyed a lot of the mysticism of it.

http://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/God_and_Quantum_Physics
Some additional informations about it.

And this is why it is terribly unrealistic. You realize that field of study is not accepted by the scientific community, poorly tested, not published in any established scientific journals, poorly documented, and never experimented with independently recognized success. Mysticism and spirituality will not be in the game. I believe in God, but I realize that such matters are not quantifiable or testable, and do not fit in with a game of discussion (I don't know why I wrote discussion) science.

If you have anymore ideas on mysticism, spirituality, and meditation, for a game, please take them to a game that includes them.

To keep things clear. I don't talk about the suggestion anymore, only about the realism.

NickTheNick wrote:

Perfect harmony with nature, completely peaceful living, and no destruction of the environment do not qualify to ascend a species. Meditation points is a bad idea, and does not fit in with Thrive. Stop suggesting how difficult it is do achieve. That is not why it is being rejected. It is being rejected because it is terribly unrealistic.

Ascension in our mythology, is connected with such sort of living. Its something from the esoteric. Feel free to read about it and you will get the informations i suggested about this there aswell (yust not so simplified). It has something to do with positive energy and thinking. I explained it already. Ok, you say its unrealistic, but how realistic is ascension in generally?
I actually get the impression, that you have token the ascending theory out of the mythology, used aswell by some sci-fis and when i give you the other half of it, you are telling its to unrealistic.

NickTheNick wrote:

And this is why it is terribly unrealistic. You realize that field of study is not accepted by the scientific community, poorly tested, not published in any established scientific journals, poorly documented, and never experimented with independently recognized success.

The quantum physical work i linked is actually this, what explains the whole ascension process most plausible. This could aswell give a half plausble explanation, how a ascension gate could work by manipulating the vibration energy.

NickTheNick wrote:

Mysticism and spirituality will not be in the game. I believe in God, but I realize that such matters are not quantifiable or testable, and do not fit in with a game of discussion.

If you have anymore ideas on mysticism, spirituality, and meditation, for a game, please take them to a game that includes them.

If i would take your quote like how it is, then you would argue, that ascension and a ascension gate, goodlike powers and godlike beeing with powerful energetic abilities is something absolute realistic and has nothing to do with mysticism or sprituality. Well, to be honest, i have seen non other theories about it, besides the one i linked you and you already stated, its absolutly unrealistic. So from your statements, ascension would be aswell nothing for the game. But that was already stated, that this is in. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion, because thats actually, for what i suggested this idea.

From my point, godlike powers you can archive with ascension IS actually mysticism or sprituality. We can actually argue how realistic it is in real, because we don't have enough informations. But if we see mysticism and spirituality as unrealistic, then ascension is actually aswell unrealistic, because its part of it. That is actually the reason i put this way as an suggestion.
And how should a way to archive something like this be realistic? You say, the way i suggested is absolutly unrelastic. How should it be relastic, if its for archiving something, what is unrelistic?

We actually talked about a ascension gate. I personally like the idea aswell. But with your argumentations, it would end with the same unrealistic result, because it would base on the same theories and on ascension.

Meditation, etc. as a way of ascending woudn't be in the basic game. I totally accept it and see it as completly legit and valid.

But its not a valid argument, to argue, that a specific way to ascension is to unrealistic, because there is no mysticism or sprituality in the game. Ascension is actually the mysticism and spiritual part of the game.

Its a game decision and game decisions has to be made. And i fully accept it as game decision.


To keep it clear. I don't want to stress around here.
But after this discussion, i think it would be the best, to distance myself from this forum, to keep the peace.

I hate to butt in on this argument, but the ascension gate is more "uber-science" than mysticism.

But Nick, what about the plans for religions, wouldn't meditation, mysticism, and spirituality be a part of the traits system?

---

Hate to digress but what are the plans for a species achieving immortality separately from ascension?

Silver Sterling wrote:

To keep things clear. I don't talk about the suggestion anymore, only about the realism.

NickTheNick wrote:

Perfect harmony with nature, completely peaceful living, and no destruction of the environment do not qualify to ascend a species. Meditation points is a bad idea, and does not fit in with Thrive. Stop suggesting how difficult it is do achieve. That is not why it is being rejected. It is being rejected because it is terribly unrealistic.

Ascension in our mythology, is connected with such sort of living. Its something from the esoteric. Feel free to read about it and you will get the informations i suggested about this there aswell (yust not so simplified). It has something to do with positive energy and thinking. I explained it already. Ok, you say its unrealistic, but how realistic is ascension in generally?
I actually get the impression, that you have token the ascending theory out of the mythology, used aswell by some sci-fis and when i give you the other half of it, you are telling its to unrealistic.

NickTheNick wrote:

And this is why it is terribly unrealistic. You realize that field of study is not accepted by the scientific community, poorly tested, not published in any established scientific journals, poorly documented, and never experimented with independently recognized success.

The quantum physical work i linked is actually this, what explains the whole ascension process most plausible. This could aswell give a half plausble explanation, how a ascension gate could work by manipulating the vibration energy.

NickTheNick wrote:

Mysticism and spirituality will not be in the game. I believe in God, but I realize that such matters are not quantifiable or testable, and do not fit in with a game of discussion.

If you have anymore ideas on mysticism, spirituality, and meditation, for a game, please take them to a game that includes them.

If i would take your quote like how it is, then you would argue, that ascension and a ascension gate, goodlike powers and godlike beeing with powerful energetic abilities is something absolute realistic and has nothing to do with mysticism or sprituality. Well, to be honest, i have seen non other theories about it, besides the one i linked you and you already stated, its absolutly unrealistic. So from your statements, ascension would be aswell nothing for the game. But that was already stated, that this is in. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion, because thats actually, for what i suggested this idea.

From my point, godlike powers you can archive with ascension IS actually mysticism or sprituality. We can actually argue how realistic it is in real, because we don't have enough informations. But if we see mysticism and spirituality as unrealistic, then ascension is actually aswell unrealistic, because its part of it. That is actually the reason i put this way as an suggestion.
And how should a way to archive something like this be realistic? You say, the way i suggested is absolutly unrelastic. How should it be relastic, if its for archiving something, what is unrelistic?

We actually talked about a ascension gate. I personally like the idea aswell. But with your argumentations, it would end with the same unrealistic result, because it would base on the same theories and on ascension.

Meditation, etc. as a way of ascending woudn't be in the basic game. I totally accept it and see it as completly legit and valid.

But its not a valid argument, to argue, that a specific way to ascension is to unrealistic, because there is no mysticism or sprituality in the game. Ascension is actually the mysticism and spiritual part of the game.

Its a game decision and game decisions has to be made. And i fully accept it as game decision.


To keep it clear. I don't want to stress around here.
But after this discussion, i think it would be the best, to distance myself from this forum, to keep the peace.

Your about to get banned I can see it. The People working on this game is making it uberscience so religion is gonna be a joke and all religious aspects are gonna be useless. totally.

I only was expressing my opinion on the ascension gate concept. I may not follow a religion myself, but I don't find it a joking matter.

Theres no need to ban anyone. But this discussion should be dropped as the topic is closed.

Silver Sterling wrote:

Ascension in our mythology, is connected with such sort of living. Its something from the esoteric. Feel free to read about it and you will get the informations i suggested about this there aswell (yust not so simplified). It has something to do with positive energy and thinking. I explained it already. Ok, you say its unrealistic, but how realistic is ascension in generally?
I actually get the impression, that you have token the ascending theory out of the mythology, used aswell by some sci-fis and when i give you the other half of it, you are telling its to unrealistic.

1. Ascension is the transformation of your species to energy. We know that matter can be converted into energy, and vice versa. An ascension gate does this. Any doubts as to whether this is too sci-fi can be settled by remembering that...
2. It doesn't matter whether an ascension gate is realistic or not. The process of reaching it is perfectly fine (technology), and it is to allow the player to control the galaxy in a sandbox mode. RTS controls are not realistic, being a semi-omniscient, semi-omnipotent entity that floats in the air, but that does not matter because it is a gameplay decision to allow the player to control a large group without the limits of being one person.

What you suggest is not within the realm of known science, and no matter how many times you keep saying its true, there still are no legitimate experiments, evidence, documents, or scientific recognition to back it up.
The process of reaching ascension through technology is perfectly validated. The process of reaching ascension through meditation and harmony with nature is not validated, because spirituality is not quantifiable. Simple.

Silver Sterling wrote:

The quantum physical work i linked is actually this, what explains the whole ascension process most plausible. This could aswell give a half plausble explanation, how a ascension gate could work by manipulating the vibration energy.

Manipulating vibrational energy through spirituality is not something that can be quantified or has been quantified or even has been proven. The links you gave reinforced this. You may have read the book, but you don't seem to understand that, until this can be proven, it is pseudo-science.

Silver Sterling wrote:

If i would take your quote like how it is, then you would argue, that ascension and a ascension gate, goodlike powers and godlike beeing with powerful energetic abilities is something absolute realistic and has nothing to do with mysticism or sprituality. Well, to be honest, i have seen non other theories about it, besides the one i linked you and you already stated, its absolutly unrealistic. So from your statements, ascension would be aswell nothing for the game. But that was already stated, that this is in. Otherwise we wouldn't have this discussion, because thats actually, for what i suggested this idea.

No, it is not absolutely realistic. You misunderstand my point. You also misunderstand what we mean by ascension.

Read the two points I wrote at the beginning.

Silver Sterling wrote:

From my point, godlike powers you can archive with ascension IS actually mysticism or sprituality. We can actually argue how realistic it is in real, because we don't have enough informations. But if we see mysticism and spirituality as unrealistic, then ascension is actually aswell unrealistic, because its part of it. That is actually the reason i put this way as an suggestion.
And how should a way to archive something like this be realistic? You say, the way i suggested is absolutly unrelastic. How should it be relastic, if its for archiving something, what is unrelistic?

No, ascension is not spirituality or mysticism, because it has nothing to do with God, souls, or an afterlife. It is about transforming matter into energy. Again, read what I said at the beginning.

I don't know what you mean be archiving. Also, what do you mean how can your suggestion be realistic? It isn't realistic, and it can't be realistic. It is not within our known realm of science.

Silver Sterling wrote:

We actually talked about a ascension gate. I personally like the idea aswell. But with your argumentations, it would end with the same unrealistic result, because it would base on the same theories and on ascension.

I never changed the meaning of ascension. Ascension for Thrive has always meant using a gate to transform your species from matter to energy.

Silver Sterling wrote:

Meditation, etc. as a way of ascending woudn't be in the basic game. I totally accept it and see it as completly legit and valid.

Or in any of the later releases for that matter.

Silver Sterling wrote:

But its not a valid argument, to argue, that a specific way to ascension is to unrealistic, because there is no mysticism or sprituality in the game. Ascension is actually the mysticism and spiritual part of the game.

No, it's not. Read why I said so above.

Silver Sterling wrote:

To keep it clear. I don't want to stress around here.
But after this discussion, i think it would be the best, to distance myself from this forum, to keep the peace.

This isn't stressing, I hope it didn't come off like that, but you have to realize the difference between what you suggesting and what ascension really is, and what you claim to be science and what is really science.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I hate to butt in on this argument, but the ascension gate is more "uber-science" than mysticism.

But Nick, what about the plans for religions, wouldn't meditation, mysticism, and spirituality be a part of the traits system?

---

Hate to digress but what are the plans for a species achieving immortality separately from ascension?

Thank you. My point exactly. Of course religions will be in the game, the institutions, but the deities they worship, souls/spirits, meditation that actually somehow transforms a species into omnipotent beings, and the such won't be included. There won't be immortality separately from ascension/technology.

Jimexmore wrote:

Your about to get banned I can see it. The People working on this game is making it uberscience so religion is gonna be a joke and all religious aspects are gonna be useless. totally.

Actually, no religion is not going to be a joke. Religious aspects are not going to be useless. We including religion as an institution your people follow. They will generate and spread. This is because this is quantifiable. Gods and spirits and afterlifes, no.

EDIT: Ah, ninja'd by Inca.

To clarify, Nick, I meant immortality through technology alone, ascension gate not required to make the species the player has designed themselves immortal in terms of the lifespan.

Also, glad I could help clarify a point.

Will it be possible that in the future of the game, We could implement our own music into the files to play at certain points, like if our creature is in a certain biome, we could have it play music that we put into the game? Because I was thinking that if in the future of the game, when robot uprisings can happen, I would be able to play music like Quadraxises theme from Metroid Prime 2?OR Maybe implement something into the game to add the music directly into the game, Because it would add just a tiny bit more immersion into the game, being able to hear some of your favorite music while in game.

Though remember, you can implement this mechanic into the game at any time you want, or not at all, Your choices and programming.

Please read this thread (https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t692-important-read-before-posting) before posting, especially the part where it says:

Quote :

Before starting a new thread, make sure you post your suggestion or question on this (https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t1226p405-miscellaneous-bugs-and-questions-that-don-t-deserve-their-own-thread-thread#27182) thread. They can develop to their own threads if need be, but post them there first.

I'll leave someone better qualified to answer the question.

So all this talk of religions have gottin me thinking
CRUSADES AND JIHAD
please i want to send my empire at war with a galaxy for not worshipping my gods.
maybe even...... terrorism of the entire galaxy, please tell me holy wars will be in here or maybe being able to go to war for any reason "These guys looked at us weird kill!!! kill!! kill!"
and dumb real stuff like that because people go to war for stupid reasons all the time.

You don't need a reason to declare war, you can just do it. You can know to yourself that it was because of a certain reason that you did so, but the game isn't going to ask you why you want to declare war.

ThreeCubed wrote:

Will it be possible that in the future of the game, We could implement our own music into the files to play at certain points, like if our creature is in a certain biome, we could have it play music that we put into the game? Because I was thinking that if in the future of the game, when robot uprisings can happen, I would be able to play music like Quadraxises theme from Metroid Prime 2?OR Maybe implement something into the game to add the music directly into the game, Because it would add just a tiny bit more immersion into the game, being able to hear some of your favorite music while in game.

Though remember, you can implement this mechanic into the game at any time you want, or not at all, Your choices and programming.

This isn't something we plan on supporting, but there's no reason it wouldn't be easy to mod yourself. All you have to do is replace the music files the game ships with with your own.

NickTheNick wrote:

You don't need a reason to declare war, you can just do it. You can know to yourself that it was because of a certain reason that you did so, but the game isn't going to ask you why you want to declare war.

In Europa Universalis 3, you have to have a cassus bellus, reason for war, to go to war and I thought this was a pretty cool mechanic. It might actually be cool to impliment this in thrive, especially when you think how hard it is now for countries to go to war legally. It would add a whole new dynamic to the game. Obviously would only apply to the later stages.

Yeah, I played EUIII extensively, but the framework of the game is too different from the framework of EUIII or other paradox grand strategy games to implement something like casus bellis.

NickTheNick wrote:

Yeah, I played EUIII extensively, but the framework of the game is too different from the framework of EUIII or other paradox grand strategy games to implement something like casus bellis.

Exactly. By my knowledge Thrive wont be using an occupation system like EU, nor will it have the map divided into provinces.

I have also been playing EUIII a lot before IV came out, and I must say that I found the casus belli system one of the most frustrating mechanics in the game. When playing as some nation like Brandenburg expansion was terribly hard since you could only get casus bellis through events or a few missioins (for Pommerania and Bohemian Silesia). They actually drastically improved the system in IV to the point that it is actually fun now.

But to be honest, I wouldn't even bother with a casus belli system, especially an EUIII system, since most people would find it extremely annoying.

My opinion is that you should be allowed to declare war without a justified reason, but doing so should give you a penalty of some kind (e.g. decreased diplomatic relations with all neighbouring nations, increased public unrest). Though as Nick said, the Casus Belli system may not blend well with the current system for Thrive.

Can I post an idea for Religions on here? Like an example type of thing? Because I think I have something good.

Go ahead :).

Alright, I have an idea for religions, Infact I made a Very simple looking Hud for it.



Allow me to explain.

The Octagonal thing to the left of the Name and Description will be the editor, Using Four basic polygons to edit it, Triangles, Squares, Pentagons, and Hexagons, This will allow the simple creation of religious pieces, like the Cross. You can use the colors at the bottom to add colors to it and the circle in between the Blue and yellow to make your own colors, using a color wheel.

The name and description will be mostly what it is named, you get to make the Name and the Description.

Now the bottom part of this is the most important, It includes details of the religion and religious ideas.

Monotheistic and Polytheistic determines how many Deities or Gods that your religion will have.

Monotheistic will allow you to name your God, and a brief description.

Polytheistic will allow you to choose how many gods and deities you have, including custom for Hindu-levels of Gods.

The check boxes to the right of that is the most important part of the religions. I will give a basic description and effect of them

Marriages will be just like in real life, One man of a species marries one Female of a species and they are bassicly wed for life. (If your species is Asexual this option will be blacked out)
Effects: +10 Happiness to species, -5% fertility of species. (because they would be Belguiming eachother)

Prayer will allow the people of your species to pray, simple as that.
Effects: +5% Conversion power, -5% Building speed.

Sacrifices will allow your species to sacrifice other species that you have made as prisoners, or you sacrifice animals to please your god(s)
Effects: +10% Taxes, +5% Attack damage, -10% conversion power.

Religious heads will bassicly be people like a Pope, or a Priest, allowing faster spread of religions.
Effects: +10% conversion power, -10% Taxes. (Money goes to Religious Leaders)

Holy books will allow you to spread your religion easier, and will allow more literacy.
Effects: +5% conversion speed, -5% Research speed. (people will assume the book as fact)

Of course you can take every effect, of course you can just take one, but hey, it allows a smaller amount of immersion to add to your game, One more idea is Heretics and Heathens.

Heretics will be variations on your religion, spawned randomly, and having different names. When its a Heretic to your religion it will have a small yellow H is bellow the religion symbol.

Heathens will be any other religion, that is not related to your religion, it will be represented by a small red H bellow the religion symbol.

Effects of these will be this.
Same religion: +10 relation
Heretic religion: -10 relation
Heathen religion: -20 religion.

Of course once you make a religion, it will regard the beliefs of before as Pagan beliefs, -15 relations.

Religions will be able to be made when you are able to research Organised Beliefs. Probably after Literacy, and in the Social category.

This will pave the way for Theocracys. which would probably have an effect like +50% conversion power, -10% Military power, -10% Research speed.

Anywhays, I hope I have contributed a good part to this, and allow a good piece of society stage to be uncovered, and developed.