Extended Research List

"Waterbound Collecting", or maybe "Waterbound Gathering".

GamerXA wrote:

"Waterbound Collecting", or maybe "Waterbound Gathering".

Waterbound gathering sounds like it would allow for the collection of all kinds of resources in the water. Excellent terminology there. Will update now.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Well, there's transportation. Also, I didn't really think about the "sailing" thing- I interpereted it as boating in general.

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Well, there's transportation. Also, I didn't really think about the "sailing" thing- I interpereted it as boating in general.

Maybe a research 'Boating' should come from 'Waterbound Gathering', and 'Sailing' should be derived from 'Boating' and 'Weaving'?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Well, there's transportation. Also, I didn't really think about the "sailing" thing- I interpereted it as boating in general.

Maybe a research 'Boating' should come from 'Waterbound Gathering', and 'Sailing' should be derived from 'Boating' and 'Weaving'?

Putting aside the other researches for a moment...

The way I'd see it is first boating (Covering rowing and canoeing, allowing boats to be made),

then sailing (increased speed and turning, tacking needed when wind against them, allows sailing boats to be made),
with waterbound gathering (Boats can be equipped with fishing tools to collect fish when stationary, providing a food income on return to SC)

On-topic: I'd suggest adding wood-crafting to the tech tree.

The Uteen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Well, there's transportation. Also, I didn't really think about the "sailing" thing- I interpereted it as boating in general.

Maybe a research 'Boating' should come from 'Waterbound Gathering', and 'Sailing' should be derived from 'Boating' and 'Weaving'?

Putting aside the other researches for a moment...

The way I'd see it is first boating (Covering rowing and canoeing, allowing boats to be made),

then sailing (increased speed and turning, tacking needed when wind against them, allows sailing boats to be made),
with waterbound gathering (Boats can be equipped with fishing tools to collect fish when stationary, providing a food income on return to SC)

On-topic: I'd suggest adding wood-crafting to the tech tree.

But waterbound gathering can be done without any boats. Just stand in the water and spear the buggers. Or rip out the seaweed.

Wood Crafting, hey? Alright, another of the very first with no requisites?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Well, there's transportation. Also, I didn't really think about the "sailing" thing- I interpereted it as boating in general.

Maybe a research 'Boating' should come from 'Waterbound Gathering', and 'Sailing' should be derived from 'Boating' and 'Weaving'?

Putting aside the other researches for a moment...

The way I'd see it is first boating (Covering rowing and canoeing, allowing boats to be made),

then sailing (increased speed and turning, tacking needed when wind against them, allows sailing boats to be made),
with waterbound gathering (Boats can be equipped with fishing tools to collect fish when stationary, providing a food income on return to SC)

On-topic: I'd suggest adding wood-crafting to the tech tree.

But waterbound gathering can be done without any boats. Just stand in the water and spear the buggers. Or rip out the seaweed.

Wood Crafting, hey? Alright, another of the very first with no requisites?

Sounds good. Make the wheel require wood crafting, though. Maybe fishing, too. But one other thing: At what point in the game do you unlock the first researches?

I assume it's at the beginning of awakening, so...

Weaving requisites: Access to fibrous materials.

Fishing: Knowledge of fish (after awakening), the ability to eat fish.

Stone Knapping: Access to stone.

The Wheel: Must live on flat ground, not cliffs/cave ceilings.

What about flying species? I'm sure they'd be able to skip a lot of these if they're able to become sapient, no?

That's a pretty cool list.

Anyway, are there any seams between 'tribal stage' and 'civ stage'?

It's pretty seamless right now, all that matters is your technology level.

The Uteen wrote:

Sounds good. Make the wheel require wood crafting, though. Maybe fishing, too. But one other thing: At what point in the game do you unlock the first researches?

I assume it's at the beginning of awakening, so...

Weaving requisites: Access to fibrous materials.

Fishing: Knowledge of fish (after awakening), the ability to eat fish.

Stone Knapping: Access to stone.

The Wheel: Must live on flat ground, not cliffs/cave ceilings.

Why would The Wheel require fishing? When Strategy Mode is unlocked you can actively seek out researches (see RedStar's Research Generation System for more information).

And talking of the Research Generation System, all of the things you mentioned there were more about the generation of the research. Which does make me think that i need to add another column for research 'types'. Like 'Food', 'Resource', 'Military', 'Metals', etc. We need to think about what Research Types there would be, as well.

@YB: What researches do you think flying creatures would skip? Because i can't think of any.

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

and stone tools also
there are a couple of researches that could have a accident chance; like the wheel if you found a round stone and fire if a lighting started a fire i

if not then fire would need wood as the raw material and a bit of a brain... wooden sticks would be used to light it up by friction. Stone circles [new tech to add (i don't know what to call it)] would allow you to use stones around fire reducing chance of turning it into a wild fire. stone napping would let you start a fire with stones making it faster and more successful)

US_of_Alaska wrote:

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

I think fire should be it's own thing. I don't think it should require anything... maybe watching a lightning bolt strike a tree... but that's a little too vague.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

IMO (in my opinion) it shouldn't always be fire. It could be something precious, though, like a gemstone or something. As long as you're the first of the first sapient generation to realize that you're, well, sapient, and look at something in a whole new way.

Then again I'm not very scientific. That's just me. It may not be right.

roadkillguy wrote:

I think fire should be it's own thing. I don't think it should require anything... maybe watching a lightning bolt strike a tree... but that's a little too vague.

The only thing fire research should require is seeing it in nature. Doesn't matter if the grass started burning from heat, a tree was struck by lightning or an animal did it unintenationaly, the player should be able to send his tribemen to examine and research the fire. First, ability to use it would be gained, then to carry it, then to make it.

roadkillguy wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

I think fire should be it's own thing. I don't think it should require anything... maybe watching a lightning bolt strike a tree... but that's a little too vague.

Just because you see fire doesn't mean you can control it. Else why aren't those birds and chimps that are smart enough to make wooden tools running around with flaming torches?

Chimps with wooden tools? Where have I been?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Sounds good. Make the wheel require wood crafting, though. Maybe fishing, too. But one other thing: At what point in the game do you unlock the first researches?

I assume it's at the beginning of awakening, so...

Weaving requisites: Access to fibrous materials.

Fishing: Knowledge of fish (after awakening), the ability to eat fish.

Stone Knapping: Access to stone.

The Wheel: Must live on flat ground, not cliffs/cave ceilings.

Why would The Wheel require fishing? When Strategy Mode is unlocked you can actively seek out researches (see RedStar's Research Generation System for more information).

And talking of the Research Generation System, all of the things you mentioned there were more about the generation of the research. Which does make me think that i need to add another column for research 'types'. Like 'Food', 'Resource', 'Military', 'Metals', etc. We need to think about what Research Types there would be, as well.

@YB: What researches do you think flying creatures would skip? Because i can't think of any.

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

I mean I think Fishing needs wood crafting, too.

Noitulove wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

EDIT: GOOD GOD GENTLEMEN! WE HAVE FORGOTTEN FIRE! Where should it go? What should it require? Because there were wooden tools before fire, wasn't there?

IMO (in my opinion) it shouldn't always be fire. It could be something precious, though, like a gemstone or something. As long as you're the first of the first sapient generation to realize that you're, well, sapient, and look at something in a whole new way.

Then again I'm not very scientific. That's just me. It may not be right.

Actually it should. We've already beaten this topic to death on the old forum. While many things can trigger sapience, fire is a vital tech to discover.

Hi! I'm back on the forums!!! I have (more or less) kept up to date. Anyway I only think it should take what it needs to be done completely rubbishly then get better when the species has stuff like wood tools ect. . Fishing could be done by hand and simply done quicker with fishing rods. A fallen log could be used as a raft and could be made into a boat with more knowledge.

roadkillguy wrote:

Chimps with wooden tools? Where have I been?

I
Don't
Know

Whooa!

Now that that's over, is there necessarily anything that should come before primitive tools?

roadkillguy wrote:

Whooa!

Now that that's over, is there necessarily anything that should come before primitive tools?

Nothing other than someway to manipulate them. That i can think of, anyways.

I have a couple things to say. First, while fire is very imporant, it's not completely nessecary. Fire is the fist step in chemistry, it teaches us that an action has a reaction; in this case friction=fire. But, something else could easily take fires place, such as to chemicals that, when mixed together, glow. I think this would be the case in an aquatic civilization tree.
Second Flying creatures wouldn't invent the wheel. It would be unnecessary for them, they would always be able to fly faster. The might invent a light weight carry device that multiple beings would fly with, to carry goods.
Third, well while typing first and second I forgot what this was supposed to be.

Lukas99 wrote:

I have a couple things to say. First, while fire is very imporant, it's not completely nessecary. Fire is the fist step in chemistry, it teaches us that an action has a reaction; in this case friction=fire. But, something else could easily take fires place, such as to chemicals that, when mixed together, glow. I think this would be the case in an aquatic civilization tree.
Second Flying creatures wouldn't invent the wheel. It would be unnecessary for them, they would always be able to fly faster. The might invent a light weight carry device that multiple beings would fly with, to carry goods.
Third, well while typing first and second I forgot what this was supposed to be.

Without fire, you cannot have any metal-working technologies. Without fire, your species will always be stuck in the Stone Age (at least physically, their society might be modern or even ultramodern).