The official military topic

Tenebrarum wrote:

Uteen, while complex meanuvers made in the formation mini editor could work, we're reaching a point where complexity of gameplay is going to be an issue not only for the programmer but for the player. Things will be incredibly glitchy anyways, and messing with the AI any more than we have to will only pick at the scab.

Once we have a prototype, we can build of it if we want. But let's wait for that prototype.

Again, we should focus as much as we can on the immediete issues: Microbe stage and the finalization of Aware Concept. I understand that it's difficult to wait for roadkill and still be enthusiastic,but let's prioritize.

QFT. We need boundaries on complexity somewhere. That's why I always try to make things extremely simple.

The Uteen wrote:

Resource collection

Don't forget ships have to be practical for travelling. While this floating shipyard might work, you don't want to have all the docking, resource mining, refining, manufacturing and residental areas in your combat fleet. It would be much more expensive and losing it would make you practically screwed. Simply building some cargo ships and then sending them with the fleet might be a better idea to increase it's range.

The Uteen wrote:

I think complex manoeuvres could be done using the formations mini-editor

There's huge amount of ways the enemy or you can change the battlefield in. If the enemy has a column formation, you want to cross their T, if the enemy has line formation, you will want to split your forces to two column formations and flank them left and right, etc. There might also be a planet in the way, or an asteroid field. I can't see the AI adapting well to this.

Alternatively, Rex's reasons work just as well.

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Again, we should focus as much as we can on the immediete issues: Microbe stage and the finalization of Aware Concept. I understand that it's difficult to wait for roadkill and still be enthusiastic,but let's prioritize.

It's not that much difficult to wait as it's difficult to contribute for me. I just can't get myself to understand more than the basic "eat to gain abilities", and I don't really want to sit down and do nothing.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Resource collection

Don't forget ships have to be practical for travelling. While this floating shipyard might work, you don't want to have all the docking, resource mining, refining, manufacturing and residental areas in your combat fleet. It would be much more expensive and losing it would make you practically screwed. Simply building some cargo ships and then sending them with the fleet might be a better idea to increase it's range.

Of course they wouldn't actually go into a fight, they would stand back and accompany and supply the fleet on their travels. Once you have finished one battle, it would be very beneficial to be able to send out mining ships to asteroids and reinforce your fleet before departing to the next one, enough to justify the risk of losing more in the case of defeat. In addition, the biome pod could be the predecessor for custom biomes which then would lead to artificial planets. The shipyard could lead on to the other sort of artificial planets - planet-sized ships which contain huge populations and zero-g industries and research at the poles, huge ship manufacturing, refining, and bio-resource supplying capabilities, on a scale allowing manufacturing of the god machines.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Again, we should focus as much as we can on the immediete issues: Microbe stage and the finalization of Aware Concept. I understand that it's difficult to wait for roadkill and still be enthusiastic,but let's prioritise.

...But I like talking about space.

I understand... I'm not trying to start discussion about space, (maybe unconsciously, but I can't help that, my mind likes space) but if I don't continue it that's one less post and a bit less concept sorting-out... And I'd feel bad if I deliberately didn't contribute, so I do... But if you don't want this discussing now, that's fine.

Talking about this is fine and useful, but there are more immediate topics, such as microbe stage. Also, has anybody checked my work for food webs?

The Uteen wrote:

Of course they wouldn't actually go into a fight, they would stand back and accompany and supply the fleet on their travels. Once you have finished one battle, it would be very beneficial to be able to send out mining ships to asteroids and reinforce your fleet before departing to the next one, enough to justify the risk of losing more in the case of defeat. In addition, the biome pod could be the predecessor for custom biomes which then would lead to artificial planets. The shipyard could lead on to the other sort of artificial planets - planet-sized ships which contain huge populations and zero-g industries and research at the poles, huge ship manufacturing, refining, and bio-resource supplying capabilities, on a scale allowing manufacturing of the god machines.

Keep in mind these all have to still work as regular ships to move around. Technology wastes energy at exponentially higher rate as it grows in size, and this limitation will probably stay until the very late space era, and by then all you will want to do is finally researching God tools. Planet-sized ships are not going to be practical for the same reasons we don't have huge battleships or gigantic tanks anymore - they are just too vulnerable. In space, dozens of smaller ships would be preffered because if anything happens to the gigantic ship, everyone on the board is screwed, but losing a few smaller ships is still going to leave majority alive.

Of course, we can't dictate anything to the player due to the nature of this game. Things like this will emerge on their own, it will be emergent simulation of the reality. Not intended by us, but still here.

Quote :

Talking about this is fine and useful, but there are more immediate topics, such as microbe stage. Also, has anybody checked my work for food webs?

I'm sorry, but I had trouble understanding it, let alone contributing to it.

Quote :

I'm sorry, but I had trouble understanding it, let alone contributing to it.

Ok thanks, just wondering if it had been viewed. I'll stop pseudo-hijacking Strat threads and let you strat experts carry on.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Of course they wouldn't actually go into a fight, they would stand back and accompany and supply the fleet on their travels. Once you have finished one battle, it would be very beneficial to be able to send out mining ships to asteroids and reinforce your fleet before departing to the next one, enough to justify the risk of losing more in the case of defeat. In addition, the biome pod could be the predecessor for custom biomes which then would lead to artificial planets. The shipyard could lead on to the other sort of artificial planets - planet-sized ships which contain huge populations and zero-g industries and research at the poles, huge ship manufacturing, refining, and bio-resource supplying capabilities, on a scale allowing manufacturing of the god machines.

Keep in mind these all have to still work as regular ships to move around. Technology wastes energy at exponentially higher rate as it grows in size, and this limitation will probably stay until the very late space era, and by then all you will want to do is finally researching God tools. Planet-sized ships are not going to be practical for the same reasons we don't have huge battleships or gigantic tanks anymore - they are just too vulnerable. In space, dozens of smaller ships would be preffered because if anything happens to the gigantic ship, everyone on the board is screwed, but losing a few smaller ships is still going to leave majority alive.

Of course, we can't dictate anything to the player due to the nature of this game. Things like this will emerge on their own, it will be emergent simulation of the reality. Not intended by us, but still here.

Planet-sized ships would just had to be guarded very well and not go into battle. Smaller ships can do the job too, but people like giga-colossuses! If not, it would make a good cannon-ball. A lump of sharp metal structure will huge amounts of power stored inside, crashing down on a planet... So if it does get wrecked, there's still one use for it.

The god machines they will make will be vulnerable too, so this will have to happen at some point. But by then you'd have godly mechanical powers to defend them. Maybe giga-colossuses will be only post-god machine. But they will happen.

And yeah, we won't control exactly what the player makes, so anything could happen. (except not getting god machines)

The Uteen wrote:

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

Of course they wouldn't actually go into a fight, they would stand back and accompany and supply the fleet on their travels. Once you have finished one battle, it would be very beneficial to be able to send out mining ships to asteroids and reinforce your fleet before departing to the next one, enough to justify the risk of losing more in the case of defeat. In addition, the biome pod could be the predecessor for custom biomes which then would lead to artificial planets. The shipyard could lead on to the other sort of artificial planets - planet-sized ships which contain huge populations and zero-g industries and research at the poles, huge ship manufacturing, refining, and bio-resource supplying capabilities, on a scale allowing manufacturing of the god machines.

Keep in mind these all have to still work as regular ships to move around. Technology wastes energy at exponentially higher rate as it grows in size, and this limitation will probably stay until the very late space era, and by then all you will want to do is finally researching God tools. Planet-sized ships are not going to be practical for the same reasons we don't have huge battleships or gigantic tanks anymore - they are just too vulnerable. In space, dozens of smaller ships would be preffered because if anything happens to the gigantic ship, everyone on the board is screwed, but losing a few smaller ships is still going to leave majority alive.

Of course, we can't dictate anything to the player due to the nature of this game. Things like this will emerge on their own, it will be emergent simulation of the reality. Not intended by us, but still here.

Planet-sized ships would just had to be guarded very well and not go into battle. Smaller ships can do the job too, but people like giga-colossuses! If not, it would make a good cannon-ball. A lump of sharp metal structure will huge amounts of power stored inside, crashing down on a planet... So if it does get wrecked, there's still one use for it.

The god machines they will make will be vulnerable too, so this will have to happen at some point. But by then you'd have godly mechanical powers to defend them. Maybe giga-colossuses will be only post-god machine. But they will happen.

And yeah, we won't control exactly what the player makes, so anything could happen. (except not getting god machines)

So you mean they function like artillery; extremely useful and kept in the waaay back and vulnerable when getting caught in the front lines.