Nation Editor Wrap-Up

The Nation Editor
The Nation Editor is the main way the player can manipulate their nation's workings. Any change that is made to the Nation Editor in Strategy Mode is quickly rolled out across their nation (some nation editor changes may change this), but it may cause disorder and/or unhapiness in their Society Centres. For easier navigation, the editor is broken down into separate 'Sections' and are as follows.

Overview
Obviousy the Overview Section contains the important or main things from all the other sections. The player can choose to edit what is in this panel. By default, it will have a summary of: Resources, Religion and the current Diplomatic Situation (domestic and foreign).

Economy
This section deals with the resources and economy of the nation. Under this Section the player will find a summary of all the resources present in their nation, as well as their amounts and qualities. At the top of the resource summary, there will be a drop down box for selecting a currency. Any resource or Tech Object can be selected as a currency, but it will have negative effects if the object chosen is too common or scarce. Also under the Economy Section is the Technology Summary. Under this heading, the player can find all their discovered researches, as well as what research areas (or specific research after scientific method) they are currently producing research towards. Also under this summary will be the list of all the Tech Objects and Function Parts that the player's nation has the knowledge in creating. Alongside the Resource Summary and Technology Summary, the player can find a panel for Education in their nation. This will be a drop down list containing all the options for education in your nation, along with the bonuses (positive and negative) that they provide. The last panel in the Economy Section is the Media Panel. This panel outlines through what Tech Objects news is spread (if none, then the default option is "word of mouth"), as well as the government's approach to media.

Society
This section deals with the society and structure of society in the player's nation. It contains the Panels for "Religion", "Social and Welfare", "Aesthetics and Entertainment" and "Ethics" as well as the "Importance Sliders". Under the Religion Panel, there is a list of all the religions present in the player's nation, the percentage of the population that follows them, and their traits and bonuses. At the top of the Religion Panel there will be a drop-down box with which the player can select a State Religion (after State Religion Research). Under the Social and Welfare Panel, the player can find a list of the Social Programs currently present in their nation. These Social Programs all have bonuses (+ & -), and can be illegalized or funded with resources or currency. At the top of the Social and Welfare Panel there will be a drop-down box for selecting the government's position on welfare, similar to the State Religion selector. Under the panel for Aesthetics and Entertainment, the player will find a table of all the arts, styles, sports and celebrations that are present in the nation. The player can view, illegalize or fund any of these. Celebrations last for a set time and are triggered by either an event or a time of the year. Arts and Sports will provide bonuses (+ & -), and style will change the detailing of newly constructed buildings and clothing. Arts, Sports and Celebrations may spawn randomly in the player's nation, or be assigned and designed by the player. Under the Ethics Panel, the player can find all the values of their population. Ethics will also have values set to them, and can be encouraged or discouraged at the cost of resources. The Importance Sliders are a set of adjustable sliders that deal with what apects of society your people value. The Sliders will be "Production", "Science", "Religion", "Health" and "Military". The sum of all the combined values will be 100, and can be spread across the sliders however the player wishes with obvious bonuses.

Government
This section deals with the running of the nation. It contains options for "Leaders", "Legislation", "Power", "Domestic Policy" and "Foreign Policy". The Leaders Panel will have a dropdown box for the number of leaders, as well as the method by which they are selected. It will also have the people currently in the position alongside their traits and bonuses. The Legislation Panel is nearly identical, but cannot be set to a value of one. Under the Power Panel, there will be three sliders: Leaders, Legislation and People. The sliders combined value will be 100. This value can be shared across the sliders to the player's will (with the right researches). Under the Domestic Policy, the player can find the sliders for "Economic Freedoms", "Personal Freedoms" and "Religious Freedoms". As new researches are discovered, these sliders can be manipulated to better shape the player's nation. Under Foreign Policy, the player can view their current trade relations with every nation that they are in contact with. They can also choose to open a negotiations panel to any of the nations that they are in contact with. With the right researches this is also the panel that the player can use to illegalize foreign trade routes, which will mean that no "free trade commerce" between the nations will be generated.

Culture
This section deals with the culture of the Nation. It is hoped that this section of the nation editor will allow for an in-depth gaming experience for those less interested in the military aspect of civilisation. In this section the player can create and edit the specifics of the sports, arts and celebrations present in their nation as well as make changes to the cultural themes and caste systems within their nation. As such, this section will have headings for 'Caste Systems', 'Events and Entertainment' and 'Cultural Theme'. For an in-depth view of the complex Caste System Mini-Editor, see this thread. The Events and Entertainment Mini-Editor will involve a system of using keyframes, timelines and movement designation to create custom animations for Sports, Arts and Celebrations. There will also be options for the triggers to such events, or for the castes, buildings and places most often associated with this event or entertainment. The final heading deals with the Cultural Theme. This is the overarching theme of the nation, and allows the player to relate the key ethic or value of their nation to certain Earth Nations. For instance, some suggested choices for this are: Honor (similar to Japan, Sparta), Love (Medieval Europe) and Liberty (America).


I hope this thread clears up the current concept for everyone, and doesn't infringe upon what anyone has suggested or thinks the Nation Editor should be like. Criticism is always welcome as long as it has a point and helps get us somewhere.

First off, someone better sticky this.

Also, Alaska, you forgot to add the Arts/Sports/Ce;ebration editing we discussed.

Sounds good although I would just like to clarify. Is religion optional?

2creator wrote:

Sounds good although I would just like to clarify. Is religion optional?

Sortof. It's bound to certain researches. When you hit free church, it becomes optional.

2creator wrote:

Sounds good although I would just like to clarify. Is religion optional?

Religions will spawn whether you want them to or not. And after the State Religion Research, you will find that not having a state religion will destabilize your empire. The fastest way to fix this is to take steps toward the Free Church Research, as Rex said.

EDIT: Celebrations are now included under Aesthetics and Entertainment in the Society Section of the Nation Editor.

i don't agree with you alaska, i think that it's possible for a civilization to develop soon in such a way that they'll be much more rational and less religious, though quite unlikely if we take us for an example

eumesmo wrote:

i don't agree with you alaska, i think that it's possible for a civilization to develop soon in such a way that they'll be much more rational and less religious, though quite unlikely if we take us for an example

No matter how rational a race is, they will not be able to explain everything in their world as a primitive civilisation. Therefore, they will use religion to fill the gaps. If you truly think that there is a way for a race to know everything about their world at that point in their development, then you are as ignorant as the zealots you seem to hate.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

eumesmo wrote:

i don't agree with you alaska, i think that it's possible for a civilization to develop soon in such a way that they'll be much more rational and less religious, though quite unlikely if we take us for an example

No matter how rational a race is, they will not be able to explain everything in their world as a primitive civilisation. Therefore, they will use religion to fill the gaps. If you truly think that there is a way for a race to know everything about their world at that point in their development, then you are as ignorant as the zealots you seem to hate.

Precisely. Eventually, religions usually accept that which is proven. It is at this point that "religion" seperates from "mythology." Mythology seeks to explain the unexplainable. Religion seeks to give us the power to survive in the universe and to sharpen our sense of morality.

1- no need to flame.
2- Alaska, what i mean is that we cannot see simply through the eyes of our own development. What i intended to state is that there is a slight, and i mean really slight chance that given certain conditions, another species, with a different brain, since ours is quite biased, to abandon religion in a early stage, in a certain area. This is basically impossible to humans since our brains are linked to make connections which sometimes arent there, but we cannot be so sure when looking into other species. I see your point; and i'm not as ignorant as those zealots. My opinions are based on evidence and our current though incomplete knowledge, i dont like zealots so much since they try to force people on belive in nonsense, and act badly due to that nonsense.
I was trying to refer to that little chance of happening, though quite rare of a civilization had no belives in a religious aspect.Imagine that a area was ruled by members of a certain religion, they would try to spread their religion in their domains, i assume something similar could happen if someone with no belief was in charge. It's a small window of opportunity,due to what you said, but you cannot deny that quite different outcomes from what happened to human civilization through history could happen under different conditions.



So instead of making provocations, ask politely about what the other person means

eumesmo wrote:

1- no need to flame.
2- Alaska, what i mean is that we cannot see simply through the eyes of our own development. What i intended to state is that there is a slight, and i mean really slight chance that given certain conditions, another species, with a different brain, since ours is quite biased, to abandon religion in a early stage, in a certain area. This is basically impossible to humans since our brains are linked to make connections which sometimes arent there, but we cannot be so sure when looking into other species. I see your point; and i'm not as ignorant as those zealots. My opinions are based on evidence and our current though incomplete knowledge, i dont like zealots so much since they try to force people on belive in nonsense, and act badly due to that nonsense.
I was trying to refer to that little chance of happening, though quite rare of a civilization had no belives in a religious aspect.Imagine that a area was ruled by members of a certain religion, they would try to spread their religion in their domains, i assume something similar could happen if someone with no belief was in charge. It's a small window of opportunity,due to what you said, but you cannot deny that quite different outcomes from what happened to human civilization through history could happen under different conditions.



So instead of making provocations, ask politely about what the other person means

I understood exactly what you meant. And there is reason that no primitive leader had no religious beliefs. All primitive civilizations will crave comfort. They will crave knowledge. And they will crave understanding. Religion gives them this.

Again, i will ask that you suggest what you want changed. Removal of the Secularism Research so that a nation does not have to have a State Religion to keep stable? Secularism Research to be cut in half for nations with aetheist beliefs? How do you define aetheist beliefs? There is no primitive aetheist belief system to understand what that is. Do you understand how impossible it is for the writers to understand and concept into game mechanics? If we cannot get reference from somewhere, we cannot get it. If you have a good internet article that proves your point, i'd be more than happy to get linked to it and read it.

it'd consider it when the percentage is over x%. Bout tagging religions, well Atheism would be a value of 0, agnostic 1 and the others would have a random value tag
you say a nation has a certain belief, that doesnt mean the value is an absolute 100%

many ancient greek philosophers had atheistic believes (and some died for that), and there is where the word comes from. It is not that rare, and under certain circumstances the outcome could have been different.

Reference points. I am a great supporter of them and i find them quite usefull and givers of guidance, but when you are making something like this you must let go of them in some points to think of what could have been instead of what was, else we are simulating our own society and not another one from a completly different species.

it's like the reproductive issue. why do people always think of the type that exists in some animals,s**, it's one of loads of them, and it was a "accident" in the genome. Yet when we are trying to simulate a alien lifeform we must think of what could have happen.

eumesmo wrote:

Reference points. I am a great supporter of them and i find them quite usefull and givers of guidance, but when you are making something like this you must let go of them in some points to think of what could have been instead of what was, else we are simulating our own society and not another one from a completly different species.

it's like the reproductive issue. why do people always think of the type that exists in some animals,s**, it's one of loads of them, and it was a "accident" in the genome. Yet when we are trying to simulate a alien lifeform we must think of what could have happen.

*Sigh* You're hopeless...

hopeless? for what? saying that a balance must be reached, between what we know that was and what could have been?

eumesmo wrote:

it'd consider it when the percentage is over x%. Bout tagging religions, well Atheism would be a value of 0, agnostic 1 and the others would have a random value tag
you say a nation has a certain belief, that doesnt mean the value is an absolute 100%

many ancient greek philosophers had atheistic believes (and some died for that), and there is where the word comes from. It is not that rare, and under certain circumstances the outcome could have been different..

Thank you! See this is what i have wanted the whole argument! You have put forward some real evidence that early civilizations (or at least the people that make them up) can have atheistic beliefs. This is what i wanted from you. After searching this, it seems that there is some real evidence for your case.

I think that it will be invariably harder to control your people early on in an atheist nation, as religion was really the first step towards law. As having a state religion will already give bonuses to your stability, i think that an atheist nation would already be well represented. But we will not ever force the player into selecting a State Religion. Deal?

deal. State religions will bring stability, but they would slow down scientific progress in some areas, like astronomy in the middle ages.
If your state religion gets overrun by another religion, that happened to the romans, that stability will crumble (lead(II) acetate helped on that demise too...)

eumesmo wrote:

deal. State religions will bring stability, but they would slow down scientific progress in some areas, like astronomy in the middle ages.
If your state religion gets overrun by another religion, that happened to the romans, that stability will crumble (lead(II) acetate helped on that demise too...)

An obvious cause for instability is a religion being more popular than your state religion. We definitely need to implement that. And depending on what bonuses the religion has, it may critically hinder science. But other bonuses do actually increase it. Of course, we could also put in a mechanic that spends resources on expanding the influence of your state religion, and that would naturally detriment the resources spent on research.

Let me point out that literally ALL societies on Earth have started with religion and state as one. This is because all early societies hold power through divine rule. They may reach a free-church, Elizabethan style compromise very quickly, but all START with religion and state as one. We simply cannot make the mental leap.

this has been discused before, but, in human history it happened quite early, but indeed after some state of religion. Yet we cannot say that the exact same thing would happen in other species, but i agree with you, yet when we start talking about a nation, we are already in a point of development a bit further, and there the possibility could happen.

eumesmo wrote:

this has been discused before, but, in human history it happened quite early, but indeed after some state of religion. Yet we cannot say that the exact same thing would happen in other species, but i agree with you, yet when we start talking about a nation, we are already in a point of development a bit further, and there the possibility could happen.

My point is all societies START as state religion, and become free church later on. Depending on the play-style this could be sooner or later. deal?

Tenebrarum wrote:

Let me point out that literally ALL societies on Earth have started with religion and state as one. This is because all early societies hold power through divine rule. They may reach a free-church, Elizabethan style compromise very quickly, but all START with religion and state as one. We simply cannot make the mental leap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

There were very early, and very small pockets of non-religious tribes and factions. Even if there wasn't, we can show that a leader is forcing atheism on his people by converting to no state religion. Having the stability hit will make sure that these factions are in fact small, and if an empire is forced to atheism it will cause instability. Can you see how this problem solves itself?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

Let me point out that literally ALL societies on Earth have started with religion and state as one. This is because all early societies hold power through divine rule. They may reach a free-church, Elizabethan style compromise very quickly, but all START with religion and state as one. We simply cannot make the mental leap.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_atheism

There were very early, and very small pockets of non-religious tribes and factions. Even if there wasn't, we can show that a leader is forcing atheism on his people by converting to no state religion. Having the stability hit will make sure that these factions are in fact small, and if an empire is forced to atheism it will cause instability. Can you see how this problem solves itself?

Got it.

The Original Post now contains Rex's Culture Section. Check it out and give feedback.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

The Original Post now contains Rex's Culture Section. Check it out and give feedback.

Check my castes thread, added a small piece.

I suggest that the Ethics Heading in the Society Section of the Nation Editor be merged with Rex's mini-values-ethics-ideals-culture thing in the Culture Section.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

I suggest that the Ethics Heading in the Society Section of the Nation Editor be merged with Rex's mini-values-ethics-ideals-culture thing in the Culture Section.

Got it. Love the name. I personally feel it would have fit better in the cultural theme section as it's a little stark, but perhaps that could be moved as well?

In any case, I really don't care WHERE they are at the moment, just that they're there.