GamerXA - Behaviour Editor

I don't think that poses and movements should be handled in the Behaviour Editor. The Behaviour Tab of the OE would be more for the AI, i think. This would fit better in the Test tab, where the movements can be seen in an actual environment with physics.

Isn't the test tab for simulating the in-game environment, not a separate editing tool? If so it would be just a preview.

GamerXA wrote:

Isn't the test tab for simulating the in-game environment, not a separate editing tool? If so it would be just a preview.

Well as the Test tab would have physics present already, i think it only makes sense to have tools for movements and poses. Otherwise we will have to create another tab for it, because it certainly doesn't fit in the Behaviour Tab.

It could be an extendable tab from the Test Mode that isn't present until you click a button.

GamerXA wrote:

It could be an extendable tab from the Test Mode that isn't present until you click a button.

Having a hidden panel would be fine, yes. Or having a number of panels, and it be one of them.

A hidden panel would be alright, so long as it doesn't take your attention from the testing of your organism. (Example: don't make it bright yellow and have a dark test environment.)

Bashi said he could probably do a good procedural animation creator that could handle walking, climbing, etc. For other things, the AI editor should include poses and special animations.

We need to make sure there is a clear line between procedural and player created animations.

~sciocont wrote:

Bashi said he could probably do a good procedural animation creator that could handle walking, climbing, etc. For other things, the AI editor should include poses and special animations.

We need to make sure there is a clear line between procedural and player created animations.

Simple: Natural movement (Walking, running, swimming, flying) is procedural. Custom Animations like cultural dances, praying, combat, would be handled by the player.

I do not believe it is this simple. Many Organisms with similar body plans have very different movement. Amphibians (of which I have a phobia...) and Kangaroos for example. Procedural Gaits could not be accounted for in these instances. Other problems would also arise concerning the fitness of Organisms.

GamerXA wrote:

I do not believe it is this simple. Many Organisms with similar body plans have very different movement. Amphibians (of which I have a phobia...) and Kangaroos for example. Procedural Gaits could not be accounted for in these instances. Other problems would also arise concerning the fitness of Organisms.

Which amphibian is like a kangaroo? And i doubt there is any organism that moves in a way that is not efficient, as it would die off thanks to our friend natural selection.

I'm not saying Kangaroos and some ambhibians are alike, I meant that they move differently than they would if they moved like other organisms with their body structures. I think that Procedural Gaits are very limiting in terms of evolution. It also seems to be more complex and difficult to accomplish than the method I stated in the OP.

GamerXA wrote:

I'm not saying Kangaroos and some ambhibians are alike, I meant that they move differently than they would if they moved like other organisms with their body structures. I think that Procedural Gaits are very limiting in terms of evolution. It also seems to be more complex and difficult to accomplish than the method I stated in the OP.

Having the player move each and every join to create a method of movement is tedious, and will result in some terrible as well as non-natural movements that kill off every last one of the player's species. Sounds like the opposite of fun AND science.

Perhaps a combination of the two should be in order. The default gait of new organisms that the player creates in the Editor should be a procedural representation. An option should also be present to set an organisms gait to a procedural method in God Mode. Whereas animations and Poses that are evolved should be randomly mutated for each muscle in each pose.

GamerXA wrote:

Perhaps a combination of the two should be in order. The default gait of new organisms that the player creates in the Editor should be a procedural representation. An option should also be present to set an organisms gait to a procedural method in God Mode. Whereas animations and Poses that are evolved should be randomly mutated for each muscle in each pose.

I'm not sure i understand... Poses that are evolved?

Each state will merely be a collection of variables that explain how much each muscle should contract. During the pose and animations evolution these variables will be changed just like any other aspect of the Organism that evolves.

GamerXA wrote:

Each state will merely be a collection of variables that explain how much each muscle should contract. During the pose and animations evolution these variables will be changed just like any other aspect of the Organism that evolves.

And so in this way, AI controlled organisms could also have poses?

Yes, by calling up the muscle configurations in the Behaviour Tree.

Also, just to clarify about these poses and animations, they are used for everyday activities and aren't like 'Striking a Pose' on a dance floor.

GamerXA wrote:

Yes, by calling up the muscle configurations in the Behaviour Tree.

Also, just to clarify about these poses and animations, they are used for everyday activities and aren't like 'Striking a Pose' on a dance floor.

Well what kind of poses are you talking? Because the only poses i can see being used by non-sapient species are for mating rituals and the like.

I don't know, I just decided to include them for completion I suppose.

GamerXA wrote:

I don't know, I just decided to include them for completion I suppose.

I think that something like this would fit much better into a section in the Culture or Tech Editor to outline poses and movements used for cultural reasons or to position Tech Objects and the user.

@US There are certain poses and animations that may come up naturally that won't be part of culture (such as mating rituals, stalking positions, etc). It would be easier to define them in AI than culture editor, since Culture is from more of a sociology than psychology standpoint.

~sciocont wrote:

@US There are certain poses and animations that may come up naturally that won't be part of culture (such as mating rituals, stalking positions, etc). It would be easier to define them in AI than culture editor, since Culture is from more of a sociology than psychology standpoint.

I guess. I noted that mating rituals was an obvious use of non-sapient poses, but i couldn't think of any more. Wouldn't stalking just be slow and silent walking, and therefore handled procedurally?

GamerXA wrote:

I do not believe it is this simple. Many Organisms with similar body plans have very different movement. Amphibians (of which I have a phobia...) and Kangaroos for example. Procedural Gaits could not be accounted for in these instances. Other problems would also arise concerning the fitness of Organisms.

Amphibians (and reptiles) carry their legs o the sides, which is why they move differently than mammals, birds, and dinosaurs.

Procedurals will recognize that the legs are at this angle, and probably tell the spine to bend side to side while they are walking.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

@US There are certain poses and animations that may come up naturally that won't be part of culture (such as mating rituals, stalking positions, etc). It would be easier to define them in AI than culture editor, since Culture is from more of a sociology than psychology standpoint.

I guess. I noted that mating rituals was an obvious use of non-sapient poses, but i couldn't think of any more. Wouldn't stalking just be slow and silent walking, and therefore handled procedurally?

No. some animals hold certain positions when they are waiting for prey, some strike certain poses when threatened (say a cobra or bearded dragon). A player could implement something we can't think of with the idea of it moving in a certain way, and they must have an animation editor for that.