Aware Stage Combat

Tenebrarum wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

From first person, that's great, but in third it may be easier to click on a weapon, then click on a target, and you will strike with that weapon.

How so? Again, this is based on an existing combat system, which works in third person.

It's quite intuitive, and allows the player to perform any action they like. Instead of throwing a punch, they could click on their elbow and click on the opponent, and elbow them. The system works by stretching the joint or bone clicked on out towards the target.

~sciocont wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

From first person, that's great, but in third it may be easier to click on a weapon, then click on a target, and you will strike with that weapon.

How so? Again, this is based on an existing combat system, which works in third person.

It's quite intuitive, and allows the player to perform any action they like. Instead of throwing a punch, they could click on their elbow and click on the opponent, and elbow them. The system works by stretching the joint or bone clicked on out towards the target.

This would require potential time slowing, and remove the reticle element.

Tenebrarum wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Tenebrarum wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

From first person, that's great, but in third it may be easier to click on a weapon, then click on a target, and you will strike with that weapon.

How so? Again, this is based on an existing combat system, which works in third person.

It's quite intuitive, and allows the player to perform any action they like. Instead of throwing a punch, they could click on their elbow and click on the opponent, and elbow them. The system works by stretching the joint or bone clicked on out towards the target.

This would require potential time slowing, and remove the reticle element.

Siding with Rex here. I'd rather a reticle aim combat system than frantically trying to hit the right surface and then the right surface.

Should we open up a poll? I agree that it would take longer, but it would be a lot easier to implement, since it uses the same procedure for everything. I like the idea of a reticle, but everything already uses it and I want to keep the HUD to a minimum.

~sciocont wrote:

Should we open up a poll? I agree that it would take longer, but it would be a lot easier to implement, since it uses the same procedure for everything. I like the idea of a reticle, but everything already uses it and I want to keep the HUD to a minimum.

Like i've said, if we have a "hold shift: engage combat, move camera to combat position, add reticle to screen" deal going on, it should be fairly intuitive and keep the immersion breaking HUD hidden away until you need it.

Also, can you clarify the second sentence? It is confusing. Go with the poll, although i'm not sure how many people are watching this topic with any sort of interest...

US_of_Alaska wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Should we open up a poll? I agree that it would take longer, but it would be a lot easier to implement, since it uses the same procedure for everything. I like the idea of a reticle, but everything already uses it and I want to keep the HUD to a minimum.

Like i've said, if we have a "hold shift: engage combat, move camera to combat position, add reticle to screen" deal going on, it should be fairly intuitive and keep the immersion breaking HUD hidden away until you need it.

Also, can you clarify the second sentence? It is confusing. Go with the poll, although i'm not sure how many people are watching this topic with any sort of interest...

Yeah, but remember that combat is essentially just an extension of fine control, so it would be good if we could combine them together. I agree that holding a key to engage combat is a good idea, but it would be a lot simpler to merge combat and fine control into one realm, with (possibly) right-click for fast attacks and left click for slow precise movements.
By the second sentence there, I meant that even if we have to slow down time, using an all-in one combat approach without canned animations would probably be simpler in the long run than storing all sorts of fighting animations with the animal, since the game just picks a part of the body and moves it where it needs to be instead of accessing the share file for the org.
You know what? Come to think of it, you're probably right. As I said before, there's no real reason for combat to be very complex, since most organisms just have one or two defensive. Canned animations and a reticle system it is, as long as no one else has objections.

~sciocont wrote:

Canned animations and a reticle system it is, as long as no one else has objections.

Yay!

I wanna keep this simple, and I want it to be a system we can apply throughout the game.

Hey, I am (obviously) new, I have been watching this forum for a few months and love the whole idea, this is good stuff! I plead for forgiveness of ignorance as I haven't followed as closely as I liked.
Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

Kraeken wrote:

Hey, I am (obviously) new, I have been watching this forum for a few months and love the whole idea, this is good stuff! I plead for forgiveness of ignorance as I haven't followed as closely as I liked.
Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

That's not a bad idea at all.

Kraeken wrote:

Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

I concur with this plan. I assume that it could be implemented with ranged attacks as well like poison spit for example. You could have a projectile based attack have a "cooldown" period in which, after several uses, it has to "refuel or replenish" somehow. It is nothing more than an idea.

Lost Time32 wrote:

Kraeken wrote:

Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

I concur with this plan. I assume that it could be implemented with ranged attacks as well like poison spit for example. You could have a projectile based attack have a "cooldown" period in which, after several uses, it has to "refuel or replenish" somehow. It is nothing more than an idea.

Yeah, this can easily be changed by the properties of the organ in the OE.

What if we could switch between the simple canned-animations and the complex version? that seems like it would be better choice because i personally
want to create my own custom attacks. It would be nice to use the physics engine to your advantage.

nziswat wrote:

What if we could switch between the simple canned-animations and the complex version? that seems like it would be better choice because i personally
want to create my own custom attacks. It would be nice to use the physics engine to your advantage.

You'll have to create your own custom attacks, the procedural animation will most certainly be awkward and glitchy, and so the animation mini-editor will let you tweak to your heart's content.

If you want on-the-spot custom moves, we may or may not have a "fine-control" system to allow this, but I'm still unsure as to whether or not its been green-lighted.

Kraeken wrote:

Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

That's wonderful! We can just treat the automatic movements as instincts applied when these awkward weapons are applied. Unfortunately it still brings into question how the game tells the difference between an awkwardly placed weapon and a regular one.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Kraeken wrote:

Concerning this combat system, what of "cruise-control-esque" attacks/defenses such as having a nice spikey tail continuously
Move side to side? Or, if the creature possesses hedgehog like quills, could they be implemented to raise indefinitely (until out of danger or energy)

That's wonderful! We can just treat the automatic movements as instincts applied when these awkward weapons are applied. Unfortunately it still brings into question how the game tells the difference between an awkwardly placed weapon and a regular one.

We could probably just leave this as optional, theoretically the behaviour editor should be able to do it.

Idle -> Swing tail
Eating -> Swing tail
Walking -> Swing tail
Fleeing -> Don't bother, just run for your life!

Something like that?

Wait...What?
I do not understand.
how could you eat by swinging your tail?

I am confused.

MeowMan1 wrote:

Wait...What?
I do not understand.
how could you eat by swinging your tail?

I am confused.

That was an example set of behaviours to make an organism swing it's tail a lot of the time - If the first action is underway, the second action is triggered. It doesn't cover how it eats, walks, etc, only that if it does, it swings its tail.

For how the Behaviour Editor actually works, see the Behaviour Editor Brainstorming thread, and not that post, as it's rather outdated now.

Ohhhhh.
Thankyou for clearing that up for me.

The Uteen wrote:

We could probably just leave this as optional, theoretically the behaviour editor should be able to do it.

Idle -> Swing tail
Eating -> Swing tail
Walking -> Swing tail
Fleeing -> Don't bother, just run for your life!

Something like that?

You misunderstand me. The issue isn't figuring out when to perform the action, the issue is determining when the attacks of a certain weapon(s) should be handled by the AI rather than the player. What makes the system note that the appendage is uncontrollable for the player?

Presumably we could just have the player decide, but then we're back to the problem of how to control a backwards-facing weapon rather than a forwards/side-facing one if the player refuses to mark the belgiuming thing.

Like I said before, animals usually have only one main defense mechanism. They've evolved some system that works for them and keeps them safe. If a player creates an organism with more weapons than they can keep track of, tough Belgium for them, they'll die and learn a lesson.

~sciocont wrote:

Like I said before, animals usually have only one main defense mechanism. They've evolved some system that works for them and keeps them safe. If a player creates an organism with more weapons than they can keep track of, tough Belgium for them, they'll die and learn a lesson.

I know, but the game would glitch out I think.

Tenebrarum wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

Like I said before, animals usually have only one main defense mechanism. They've evolved some system that works for them and keeps them safe. If a player creates an organism with more weapons than they can keep track of, tough Belgium for them, they'll die and learn a lesson.

I know, but the game would glitch out I think.

Why?

when a player is able to design a creature to the tiniest of details why would the creature's combat be any different ... as previously mentioned on this topic a certain pattern to a creature's organism can't be predicted so why not give the player a tool to design his own combat; something like a generator in which the player can develop simple moves like tackling( a result of certain player selected contractions of muscles and bone movement) , more complex ones such as biting (assuming the creature has the exact requirements for a mouth), or even patterns that act like simple strategies (EX:spit to confuse, lounge to reach, scratch to deal small damage and to grasp the target, and a creative player made move to finish the pray off). i know this is light years away from the combat you plan for the next stage (correct me if i'm wrong -i am a new user - but you plan to make it similar to mount and blade) but think of the possibilities , and after all isn't a never seen level of customization what you are looking for? also this generator for player made combat moves can be applied to later and earlier stages. i hope i made some sense since i am not that acquainted to this project but i can tell that it is amazing already hope it helps cheers!

If were talking about combat, could there be natural breath weapons?(like breathing fire or acid)

Raptorstorm wrote:

If were talking about combat, could there be natural breath weapons?(like breathing fire or acid)

That sounds interesting!


And, a creature I have in mind has a tail with a series of hooks on it that serve as a weapon, and a method of dragging dead prey. Would this be possible? It normally just drags behind them, or curls just above the ground.

Very interesting idea.

I can't see why not.

Sounds perfectly possible.