Government

I was thinking about how the governments of our creatures would work. Here are my ideas:


How leaders are chosen

This is important, as there are many different ways. On Earth alone, we have democracies, republics, monarchies , plutocracies, and so many other ways to appoint leaders. Aliens could have all sorts of different ways, such as perhaps all of the species would do a great race, with the fastest becoming leader; or perhaps a music competition.

This would have to be limited, as it would be near impossible for all of the different options to exist in the game. Perhaps the game should have a basic system of
Citizens choose: The citizens of the civilization choose the leader in some way or form. Whether by electing them, electing representatives that vote for the person, or perhaps some other way, the average people have the main way to choose.

Government Chooses: The Government chooses for itself. Whether by giving it to the son of the king, someone of the religion of the government, someone over the same political beliefs, or by the current leader appointing the successor, the people have no say.

Competition: Whether by a tournament, a race, or a great big standardized test, the next leader(s) are the best of all who apply.

Biological Similar to the hive systems of bees, the leader is chosen by biology. Examples would be like bee hives, a ruling caste, or maybe one species having enslaved another.

These are the four broadest ways of appointing leaders I can think of, without the current government being overthrown. If anyone has any more broad ways, please post them.

Government Control
Basically, how much the power the government has over the people's lives.

Personal Freedom: Does the government control what religion the people have, what clothes they wear, how they speak, who they mate with, how many children they can have? How many laws are there?

Economy This one will be hard, as we would have to make a separate thread on economics. But basically, how much does the government control the economy?

Strictness This ties in with personal freedom. How does the government enforce the laws? Harsh punishments, brainwashing, death? What if there is some sort of hive system, where the creature's own minds will not allow them to violate any laws.

The ways the leaders are appointed could influence/be influenced by the amount of control. For example, a theocracy where leaders are chosen because of religion would most likely not give many religious freedoms.

How the Government works

Is the government mostly local? Is it a giant bureaucracy? Is the leader a figurehead? Is it a hive mind, with the people being controlled by chemical scents or some sort of electrical impulses? This one I need help on people, any ideas to expand this section?



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End of long post, thank you for reading and for any help you can give.

This is a tough one... it'll likely be hard to code, but it could be done. The thing is that there are so many ways you can determine leaders! I mean, in the show my account is named after, the leaders of the alien race were determined by how tall they were- this would be a sort of biological competition. How do you determine what kind of competition you use.

Also, there are many different forms of government to choose from.

Communism
Democracy
Monarchy
Dictatorship
Religion-Controlled
Corrupt
Ect. ect.


That's all I can think of right now.

(By the way, this will all be edited in the Culture Editor.)

That is why I was thinking of trying to group all the forms of government into several big groups.

InvaderZim wrote:

This is a tough one... it'll likely be hard to code, but it could be done. The thing is that there are so many ways you can determine leaders! I mean, in the show my account is named after, the leaders of the alien race were determined by how tall they were- this would be a sort of biological competition. How do you determine what kind of competition you use.

Also, there are many different forms of government to choose from.

Communism
Democracy
Monarchy
Dictatorship
Religion-Controlled
Corrupt
Ect. ect.


That's all I can think of right now.

(By the way, this will all be edited in the Culture Editor.)

Those don't all apply to the same thing, though. Communism is an economic system, Democracy, Monarchy and Dictatorship are all different methods of choosing leaders, and religion-controlled and corrupt could be factors that apply to any sort of government.

InvaderZim wrote:

Communism
Democracy
Monarchy
Dictatorship
Religion-Controlled
Corrupt

Communism would simply be part of economic control, Democracy would be a Citizens choose government, Dictatorship and Monarchy would be government decides government, Religious would be a government decides what restricts personal freedom of religion, I don't know about corrupt.

Okay. The only one that I don't get how to implement is Economic. I know it's important, but... how do you put it in the game in a logical way?

InvaderZim wrote:

Okay. The only one that I don't get how to implement is Economic. I know it's important, but... how do you put it in the game in a logical way?

That was why I was thinking we should make a separate thread about how the economy works, and once we figure that out implement ways for the government to control it.

Okay. I think we need to have flexible civic options for these categories in relation to a culture and those who run it:

Government
Who is the leader of the nation and how are they chosen?
Eg Monarchy, Democracy, Competition

Power
How are laws created, changed and enforced?
Eg Bureaucracy, Parliament, Autocracy

Society
What are the people's freedoms and rights?
Eg Caste, Liberal,

Economy
What are the financial policies for the nation?
Eg Barter, Communism, Free Market

Military
What are the military policies and rules of the nation?
Eg Mercenaries, Volunteer Army, Conscription

Religion
What are the policies in regards to religions and belief systems?
Eg State Church, Secular, Atheist

Welfare
How are the people given access to health and wellbeing services?
Eg Church Monasteries, Socialized, Private


If this stage is really only about Government as in who is the leader of the nation, then we will need to discuss the rest of these elsewhere.

@DragonEye: You're talking more about the Power section than the government section. It's confusing, but look at England. It's a monarchy run by a house of parliament. Who makes the rules and enforces them? Not the Queen. I really think we need to get these sections all ironed out and solid before we go planning any of them.

EDIT:
There should probably also be a section for the nation's policies on Entertainment, as there has been numerous examples of the government or the State Church banning forms of entertainment throughout the ages.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Okay. I think we need to have flexible civic options for these categories in relation to a culture and those who run it:

Government
Who is the leader of the nation and how are they chosen?
Eg Monarchy, Democracy, Competition

Power
How are laws created, changed and enforced?
Eg Bureaucracy, Parliament, Autocracy

Society
What are the people's freedoms and rights?
Eg Caste, Liberal,

Economy
What are the financial policies for the nation?
Eg Barter, Communism, Free Market

Military
What are the military policies and rules of the nation?
Eg Mercenaries, Volunteer Army, Conscription

Religion
What are the policies in regards to religions and belief systems?
Eg State Church, Secular, Atheist

Welfare
How are the people given access to health and wellbeing services?
Eg Church Monasteries, Socialized, Private


If this stage is really only about Government as in who is the leader of the nation, then we will need to discuss the rest of these elsewhere.

@DragonEye: You're talking more about the Power section than the government section. It's confusing, but look at England. It's a monarchy run by a house of parliament. Who makes the rules and enforces them? Not the Queen. I really think we need to get these sections all ironed out and solid before we go planning any of them.

EDIT:
There should probably also be a section for the nation's policies on Entertainment, as there has been numerous examples of the government or the State Church banning forms of entertainment throughout the ages.

This probably sounds really silly but could you change that to Capitalism just because here in Texas those stupid Repubs decided to change out every mention of capitalism and turn it into "Free Market Trade" in Text Books. I know it's a silly thing to ask but I just get pissed off when people say "Free Market Trade" Instead of Capitalism. Tell me the difference if there is much of one. (Don't think I'm a Dem because I'm not)

Like I said stupid request but just feel like it needs to be done.

Falthron wrote:

This probably sounds really silly but could you change that to Capitalism just because here in Texas those stupid Repubs decided to change out every mention of capitalism and turn it into "Free Market Trade" in Text Books. I know it's a silly thing to ask but I just get pissed off when people say "Free Market Trade" Instead of Capitalism. Tell me the difference if there is much of one. (Don't think I'm a Dem because I'm not)

Like I said stupid request but just feel like it needs to be done.

There is no difference, but Free Market was a term used for a while, and it is correct.


But anyhow, I was thinking more things that would impact gameplay. A constitutional monarchy would gameplay wise, be as if it was a republic.

DragonEye4 wrote:

Falthron wrote:

This probably sounds really silly but could you change that to Capitalism just because here in Texas those stupid Repubs decided to change out every mention of capitalism and turn it into "Free Market Trade" in Text Books. I know it's a silly thing to ask but I just get pissed off when people say "Free Market Trade" Instead of Capitalism. Tell me the difference if there is much of one. (Don't think I'm a Dem because I'm not)

Like I said stupid request but just feel like it needs to be done.

There is no difference, but Free Market was a term used for a while, and it is correct.


But anyhow, I was thinking more things that would impact gameplay. A constitutional monarchy would gameplay wise, be as if it was a republic.

A.) I know its correct but I'd rather it be called Capitalism for persoanl reasons, like it I said it is a silly request.

B.)I guess we could have a figure head editor and maybe pull a hitchhiker's guide president of the universe sort of thing along with it (where Galactic President is only there to take the blame while the real ruler works behind the scenes.)

Falthron wrote:

DragonEye4 wrote:

Falthron wrote:

This probably sounds really silly but could you change that to Capitalism just because here in Texas those stupid Repubs decided to change out every mention of capitalism and turn it into "Free Market Trade" in Text Books. I know it's a silly thing to ask but I just get pissed off when people say "Free Market Trade" Instead of Capitalism. Tell me the difference if there is much of one. (Don't think I'm a Dem because I'm not)

Like I said stupid request but just feel like it needs to be done.

There is no difference, but Free Market was a term used for a while, and it is correct.


But anyhow, I was thinking more things that would impact gameplay. A constitutional monarchy would gameplay wise, be as if it was a republic.

A.) I know its correct but I'd rather it be called Capitalism for persoanl reasons, like it I said it is a silly request.

B.)I guess we could have a figure head editor and maybe pull a hitchhiker's guide president of the universe sort of thing along with it (where Galactic President is only there to take the blame while the real ruler works behind the scenes.)

I guess...

That would probably fit under section 3, how the government works. I'll add it in a second.

Although free market is just as good Capitalism sounds cooler. Although, a totally free market would be laissev fraire or however you spell the French term.

Capitalism does sound cooler, but I take the "stupid Republicans" thing as an indirect insult. (Lolz)



Entertainment: Government decides the things people can do to entertain themselves.

No Entertainment (NO RUNNING. NO LAUGHUNG. ALL WORKING. NO FUN.)

Propaganda-Filled Entertainment

Free Entertanment (No restrictions)

Leniant Entertainment Laws (Only limit a few things out, like banning gambling)

InvaderZim wrote:

Capitalism does sound cooler, but I take the "stupid Republicans" thing as an indirect insult. (Lolz)



Entertainment: Government decides the things people can do to entertain themselves.

No Entertainment (NO RUNNING. NO LAUGHUNG. ALL WORKING. NO FUN.)

Propaganda-Filled Entertainment

Free Entertanment (No restrictions)

Leniant Entertainment Laws (Only limit a few things out, like banning gambling)

Hmmmm...

Most of this would fit under personal freedoms, most likely Propaganda filled entertainment would not be in a people choose government.

InvaderZim wrote:

Capitalism does sound cooler, but I take the "stupid Republicans" thing as an indirect insult. (Lolz)



Entertainment: Government decides the things people can do to entertain themselves.

No Entertainment (NO RUNNING. NO LAUGHUNG. ALL WORKING. NO FUN.)

Propaganda-Filled Entertainment

Free Entertanment (No restrictions)

Leniant Entertainment Laws (Only limit a few things out, like banning gambling)

Don't be insulted I hate both parties

That would be interesting, but to enforce such strict limitations you would need a strong military so how would we put that in the game?

Falthron wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Capitalism does sound cooler, but I take the "stupid Republicans" thing as an indirect insult. (Lolz)



Entertainment: Government decides the things people can do to entertain themselves.

No Entertainment (NO RUNNING. NO LAUGHUNG. ALL WORKING. NO FUN.)

Propaganda-Filled Entertainment

Free Entertanment (No restrictions)

Leniant Entertainment Laws (Only limit a few things out, like banning gambling)

Don't be insulted I hate both parties

That would be interesting, but to enforce such strict limitations you would need a strong military so how would we put that in the game?

Develop a militaristic species.

You don't need that strong military, just use brute force and terror to scare all who dare to disagree.

@Falthron: Capitalism is actually a derogatory term used by the USSR and other Free Market Haters to describe the Free Market. The word Capitalist hints at Capitalizing, or making the best for yourself out of what you can get your hands on. In the environment of Communist countries, this was seen as terrible greed.

And as for the entertainment civics, we could easily have a list of leisure activities and how much they affect your society (eg Football = -5% productivity +50% Finance Production +50% Happiness +5% Disorder). Then you could select which entertainment activities are too harmful to your society to be worth their happiness bonus. And as for enforcing the law, remember that unhappiness will make your people less productive and add to disorder.

Derogatory terms tend to become words of pride after awhile, such as Yankees. But I see your point :). I still would rather have it capitalism as that is what we generally call it today. That might have been derogatory and sound greedy to those people. It just sound like someone who tries to make the best out what he can have. But enough with this discussion i think I went to personal in this.

So what about contrary government and economic system. I mean communism is all about having everyone in complete equality and everyone working together without incentive with no social class and so on. But the USSR seemed to have somewhat of a dictatorship which is contray to the communist belief. Should we try to handle that?

What about the beings mind. In the human mind we are driven by incentive and want something in return for another, that was one of the reason PURE communism doesn't work very well. But say we had more of a community of sapients who had a low form of hive mind. Then Communism as an economic system might be perfect.


We also have to find a way to balance out every government system. we don't want to have one government system be the best in a game. How would we handle this?

Falthron wrote:

Derogatory terms tend to become words of pride after awhile, such as Yankees. But I see your point :). I still would rather have it capitalism as that is what we generally call it today. That might have been derogatory and sound greedy to those people. It just sound like someone who tries to make the best out what he can have. But enough with this discussion i think I went to personal in this.

So what about contrary government and economic system. I mean communism is all about having everyone in complete equality and everyone working together without incentive with no social class and so on. But the USSR seemed to have somewhat of a dictatorship which is contray to the communist belief. Should we try to handle that?

What about the beings mind. In the human mind we are driven by incentive and want something in return for another, that was one of the reason PURE communism doesn't work very well. But say we had more of a community of sapients who had a low form of hive mind. Then Communism as an economic system might be perfect.


We also have to find a way to balance out every government system. we don't want to have one government system be the best in a game. How would we handle this?

Well, like you said, the hive-minded species may love Communism. We hate Communism. We're different. Every species would react differently to certain types of government. However, I see no problem with there being one "best" form of government. I mean, people flock from across the globe to get a taste of the dying Democracy, so Democracy would be our "perfect" government form.

InvaderZim wrote:

However, I see no problem with there being one "best" form of government. I mean, people flock from across the globe to get a taste of the dying Democracy, so Democracy would be our "perfect" government form.

But it may not be the perfect government for alien minds.

DragonEye4 wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

However, I see no problem with there being one "best" form of government. I mean, people flock from across the globe to get a taste of the dying Democracy, so Democracy would be our "perfect" government form.

But it may not be the perfect government for alien minds.

I never said it would be. I was just giving an example that it is possible for one species to find their "perfect" government.

What we really need to do is sort out how we can make governmental civics flexible, as opposed to being fixed civics like Monarchy, Republic, Dictatorship. So, we need to break it down into categories. Here's what i can come up with:

Number of Leaders
The number of people that officially head the nation.
This would simply be a matter of selecting a number on a slider.

Leader Selection
This would define how the rulers ascend to power.
This will be tricky to define in the game, and i'm welcome to suggestions. So far i can only think of some sort of selection tree with all the possibilities of ascension to power we as game designers can think of.

Power
This would define how laws are enforced, made, dissolved and changed.
This would have an option for choosing what sort of involvement the leader has in the law-making process. I'm thinking maybe three sliders from 0% to 100%, all up the amounts would obviously have to equal 100%. The sliders would read Leader, People and Legislation Party. The player can adjust the sliders to their liking, with the right researches of course.

Legislation
This would handle the Legislation Party, and how they chosen.
This would be similar to the mechanic for 'Become Leader By'. This mechanic would change people's attitude towards the government and it's decisions, depending on the share of power the Legislation Party holds.

So how would researches affect all of this? Obviously we can't have every option available from the dawn of sapience. I think that we could easily have the sections and sliders be unlocked by certain researches.

For instance,
'Code of Laws' might unlock the Legislation Section and the Legislation Party Power Slider.
'Monarchy' would unlock the Leader Selection Option 'Hereditary Rule'.
'Hunting' might unlock the Leader Selection Option 'Competition: Hunting'
'State Church' might unlock the Leader Selection Option 'Religious'.
'Autocracy' would unlock the Leader Power slider.
'Democracy' would unlock the People Power Slider.
'Representative Democracy' might unlock the Leader Selection Option 'Election'.

And... I'm out of ideas. Thoughts?

Quote :

Leader Selection
This would define how the rulers ascend to power.
This will be tricky to define in the game, and i'm welcome to suggestions. So far i can only think of some sort of selection tree with all the possibilities of ascension to power we as game designers can think of.

This is why I decided to group the ways to select a leader into several large groups. For example, whether there is a big race for leadership, or a big tournament, the end result is the same: a leader chosen by phycical ability may not be the best leader.

Quote :

Legislation
This would handle the Legislation Party, and how they chosen.
This would be similar to the mechanic for 'Become Leader By'. This mechanic would change people's attitude towards the government and it's decisions, depending on the share of power the Legislation Party holds.

The Legislative Branch may be the head of the government, if there is an autocracy, or, like in Pre-Constitutional America, be the whole national government.


The ones I did not respond to I either think are fine or have nothing to add.

DragonEye4 wrote:

This is why I decided to group the ways to select a leader into several large groups. For example, whether there is a big race for leadership, or a big tournament, the end result is the same: a leader chosen by phycical ability may not be the best leader.

Hmm... I think we need to start brainstorming all the paths to leadership of a nation. You had:
Citizens choose: The citizens of the civilization choose the leader in some way or form. Whether by electing them, electing representatives that vote for the person, or perhaps some other way, the average people have the main way to choose.

Government Chooses: The Government chooses for itself. Whether by giving it to the son of the king, someone of the religion of the government, someone over the same political beliefs, or by the current leader appointing the successor, the people have no say.

Competition: Whether by a tournament, a race, or a great big standardized test, the next leader(s) are the best of all who apply.

Biological Similar to the hive systems of bees, the leader is chosen by biology. Examples would be like bee hives, a ruling caste, or maybe one species having enslaved another.

But we still need ways to decide on how to define what sort of government choosing or what sort of competition. For instance for government selection it might be hereditary or appointing a successor, and for competition it could be the fastest to complete a puzzle or who can win the most gladiator battles. We need to define this somehow.

DragonEye4 wrote:

The Legislative Branch may be the head of the government, if there is an autocracy, or, like in Pre-Constitutional America, be the whole national government.

This is handled by sliding the Power slider all the way up on either Leader Power, or Legislation Party Power.