types of government

I think we never talked about the types of government possible at this stage ...

Doggit wrote:

I think we never talked about the types of government possible at this stage ...

Would it be possible to be able to assign 'traits' to your government to piece together your own?

Will this thread be about all types of governments and their benefits and weaknesses? If so then I will list all the types of governments that i could find. (These are only the main ones)
Democracy (citizens elect leaders) + to freedom and happiness
Monarchy (Governed by one monarch) + to order, + to administration
Oligarchy (Governed by a small amount of people through wealth and family blood) + to happiness of wealthy classes, - to lower classes
Dictatorship (ruled by one dictator) + to stability when stability is under 5, + to administration
Republic (Government that is public, or monarch is not the leader) + to happiness and population growth
Theocracy ( Divine as head, largely religious) + happiness and order to state religion, - relations to other religions
Anarchy (Government without much public enforcement, few successful occasions in history where this worked)+ to happiness and less chance of a revolt, but - stability
Communism (Classless, stateless, moneyless social order with few leaders) + order and stability, + discipline, + administration, - happiness and higher chance of revolt
(Optional but slightly realistic) Magocracy (governed by magician or mage) really do not know up to you guys to decide.
Imperial (large empire ruled by one emperor) + to administration, + to manpower, + to population growth, - to stability, higher chance of revolt.
These are the basic ones that I found everyone can add to the list or make changes! Sorry if this thread has been posted before.
CalfEggs, that does sound like a good idea, it should be possible.

There should obviously be government types, no doubt about that, and this was mentioned a long while ago but never really discussed. I was planning to get to it, but let's just discuss it here.

Now, governments won't need traits, as you say Calfeggs. There will just be certain government types, and your nation has one of them. However, you can have cultural traits, and those effect things your government can't. Culture affects the people in government but not the model of government itself. Leaders in government will also have traits, similar to those seen in the Total War Series, or Crusader King II, therefore adding another layer of differentiation between countries with the same government type. Therefore, the traits for culture and leaders should very well overlap into anything a government trait would do, thus we do not need it. However, good suggestion.

I think we should start from the foundations and work our way up. In essence I see all government forms as either a:

Republic - Representative body or council/Elected representative
Oligarchy - Hereditary, despotic, or elite ruling class/body

Within this we could extrapolate to:

Republic - Elected/appointed rulers or body
Monarchy - Hereditary rulers
Despotism - Absolute rulers
Tribalism - Communal rulers
Empire - Hereditary/Absolute rulers

We can even have different forms of the same government structure, such as the following for monarchy:

Feudal Monarchy - Power delegated to local officials/nobles
Constitutional Monarchy - Power of monarch restricted by constitution; representative body/parliament in addition to monarch
Absolute Monarchy - Power centralized to the monarch

It is also important to note that we give a level of customizability to the player. I was thinking that the name of the government form cannot be changed, but everything else can. For example, if i a a monarchy, it wouldn't matter whether I was an absolute monarchy or constitutional monarchy, I could change the name to whatever I want as long as it ends with "Monarchy".

NickTheNick wrote:

There should obviously be government types, no doubt about that, and this was mentioned a long while ago but never really discussed. I was planning to get to it, but let's just discuss it here.

Now, governments won't need traits, as you say Calfeggs. There will just be certain government types, and your nation has one of them. However, you can have cultural traits, and those effect things your government can't. Culture affects the people in government but not the model of government itself. Leaders in government will also have traits, similar to those seen in the Total War Series, or Crusader King II, therefore adding another layer of differentiation between countries with the same government type. Therefore, the traits for culture and leaders should very well overlap into anything a government trait would do, thus we do not need it. However, good suggestion.

I think we should start from the foundations and work our way up. In essence I see all government forms as either a:

Republic - Representative body or council/Elected representative
Oligarchy - Hereditary, despotic, or elite ruling class/body

Within this we could extrapolate to:

Republic - Elected/appointed rulers or body
Monarchy - Hereditary rulers
Despotism - Absolute rulers
Tribalism - Communal rulers
Empire - Hereditary/Absolute rulers

We can even have different forms of the same government structure, such as the following for monarchy:

Feudal Monarchy - Power delegated to local officials/nobles
Constitutional Monarchy - Power of monarch restricted by constitution; representative body/parliament in addition to monarch
Absolute Monarchy - Power centralized to the monarch

It is also important to note that we give a level of customizability to the player. I was thinking that the name of the government form cannot be changed, but everything else can. For example, if i a a monarchy, it wouldn't matter whether I was an absolute monarchy or constitutional monarchy, I could change the name to whatever I want as long as it ends with "Monarchy".

I dunno... I like the idea of being able to piece together my own government. So I could have my own improved version of communism, Balfarfianism. Maybe you can chose a base government, then tweak it? Or when you pick a government, do you also get to change it simply by commanding people to do stuff?

Balfarfianism- A work in progress
It's basic unit the Hub. A hub is a center of a certain production. For instance, there is a medical Hub, a scientific hub, a construction hub, a military hub, and so on. THen hubs have sub-hubs, like the genetic science hub, and the special operations military hub.

So each hub and sub hub has representatives. A hub and all of it's sub-hub representatives form a Hub committee. Then all of the hubs meet and discuss problems suggestions and all that stuff. All of the hubs and sub hubs that meet form the Balfarfian Primaries.

Thoughts?

I do like this system of organization very well. It keeps it simple. Also, how will the cultural traits that are being discussed in the cultural trait brainstorming be implemented in to the government and the game? And I think that slight changes to a base government would make the game more enjoyable, as long as the player does not have the complete freedom to get carried away and create completely unrealistic creations...

Jacelevo72 wrote:

I do like this system of organization very well. It keeps it simple. Also, how will the cultural traits that are being discussed in the cultural trait brainstorming be implemented in to the government and the game? And I think that slight changes to a base government would make the game more enjoyable, as long as the player does not have the complete freedom to get carried away and create completely unrealistic creations...

What about my government? I would like to be able to use that.

Your government is not completely unrealistic, so there should be a way to implement that in. I'm just saying that some people would develop unrealistic ways that could not work if we gave them complete freedom. I would like to have a variant of an empire...

Jacelevo72 wrote:

Your government is not completely unrealistic, so there should be a way to implement that in. I'm just saying that some people would develop unrealistic ways that could not work if we gave them complete freedom. I would like to have a variant of an empire...

Agreed. Complete control would be bad. And making custom governments, therefor, would be tricky...

Calfeggs wrote:

I dunno... I like the idea of being able to piece together my own government. So I could have my own improved version of communism, Balfarfianism. Maybe you can chose a base government, then tweak it? Or when you pick a government, do you also get to change it simply by commanding people to do stuff?

Balfarfianism- A work in progress
It's basic unit the Hub. A hub is a center of a certain production. For instance, there is a medical Hub, a scientific hub, a construction hub, a military hub, and so on. THen hubs have sub-hubs, like the genetic science hub, and the special operations military hub.

So each hub and sub hub has representatives. A hub and all of it's sub-hub representatives form a Hub committee. Then all of the hubs meet and discuss problems suggestions and all that stuff. All of the hubs and sub hubs that meet form the Balfarfian Primaries.

Thoughts?

The thing is, although you would be more than able to create all those hubs in the Tech Editor and have them function accordingly, delving into the details of customly assigning delegates to specific organisation or TO is far too complex to trigger, from my experiences. There are a lot of both practical and technical problems to it. I'm sure there could be some level of customization within governments, although for now we haven't defined the specific aspects of government and have to also look back as what has already been decided. You could have a republic that delegates power to the cities, and it could be a communist modeled economy based off of how you manage your economy and how your social classes and factions evolve, but you could not get specific enough to have each hub have a delegate and have committees where they discuss local issues; although that would be nice it is not within practical limits.

As for Jacelevo's question, cultural traits give bonuses or penalties to your societies as a whole, thus effecting your government and nation. For example, divine right is a cultural trait that turns any old monarchy into a divinely mandated monarchy, like the enlightened monarchs of the 16th and 17th in Europe, and the Heavenly Mandate of the Chinese emperors. I can't recall its specific benefits and drawbacks off the top of my head, but rest assured that culture affects everything in your society. That is why it is so important and we are creating this detailed system of customization and traits for the player. Leader traits also affect the government likewise, and in a major way as well. Look here for details on leader traits, which will be handled by arbitrary mechanics.

I carry then here, as more central to the topic, the two types of government which I wrote in the other thread ... things do you think?

Theme: Theocracy
Trait Name: Divine Right
Description: Theocracy in power is a toll on one person or a number of people (depending on religion) which applies absolutely to the rules dictated by a religion. Everything else is wrong.
Effects: - 40% science, - 20% relations with the other nations of other religions, - 40% relations with other nations, there is an atheist state or countries with a large number of atheists / agnostics , + 10% population growth, + 10% order

Theme: State atheism
Trait Name: Arsenal of Science
Description: A nation where the costs, superstitions and the block of science caused by the religion are canceled by canceled with force of their religious rites.
Effects: + 25% science, - 20 % relations with the other nations moderately religious, - 40% relations with other nations Theocracy

Doggit wrote:

I carry then here, as more central to the topic, the two types of government which I wrote in the other thread ... things do you think?

Theme: Theocracy
Trait Name: Divine Right
Description: Theocracy in power is a toll on one person or a number of people (depending on religion) which applies absolutely to the rules dictated by a religion. Everything else is wrong.
Effects: - 40% science, - 20% relations with the other nations of other religions, - 40% relations with other nations, there is an atheist state or countries with a large number of atheists / agnostics , + 10% population growth, + 10% order

Theme: State atheism
Trait Name: Arsenal of Science
Description: A nation where the costs, superstitions and the block of science caused by the religion are canceled by canceled with force of their religious rites.
Effects: + 25% science, - 20 % relations with the other nations moderately religious, - 40% relations with other nations Theocracy

Interesting. Question, are you completely in control of your creatures beliefs?

And a random question about starting a planet. If I want to have a planet with a specific set of creatures, and to evolve my own species, do I have to evolve all of them at the same time, or can I create them, put them on a planet, and put them on 'evolutionary lock'? It would make it so they can't change.
Thoughts?

We must find a way to give a result in various combinations socio-political-cultural.

For example, in one country may be a dictatorial regime that embraces a theocratic form, while another nation, even dictatorial, can embrace a form of state atheism then two results social, political and cultural very different.

How can we do?

Doggit wrote:

We must find a way to give a result in various combinations socio-political-cultural.

For example, in one country may be a dictatorial regime that embraces a theocratic form, while another nation, even dictatorial, can embrace a form of state atheism then two results social, political and cultural very different.

How can we do?

Ah. So it's like government sub types that you can put together... sorta. I see.

I made these two types of government. I am a little uncertain about effects .. you can help me improve?


Theme: Communism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Communism is a political way of thinking and an idea of how society should work and be organized. Communism is a kind of socialism that says that there should not be social classes or states. Communism says that the people of any and every place in the world should all own the tools, factories, and farms that are used to produce goods and food. This social process is known as common ownership. In a communist society, there is no private property.
Effects: - trading relationship with foreign countries, elimination of social classes, +30% increased production in the ambit military and scientific with results of finished products not high quality, +5% increase in the population,


Theme: Capitalism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Capitalism is a economic system where things (property, for example) are owned by people or an individual, not by a government or communities, and where people have to work for money, so they can buy things they need or want, such as food. Capitalism mostly has a "free market" economy, which means people buy and sell things by their own judgment.
Effects: + trading relationship with foreign contries, increase in social class, + 20% increased production but of good quality,

Doggit wrote:

I made these two types of government. I am a little uncertain about effects .. you can help me improve?


Theme: Communism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Communism is a political way of thinking and an idea of how society should work and be organized. Communism is a kind of socialism that says that there should not be social classes or states. Communism says that the people of any and every place in the world should all own the tools, factories, and farms that are used to produce goods and food. This social process is known as common ownership. In a communist society, there is no private property.
Effects: - trading relationship with foreign countries, elimination of social classes, +30% increased production in the ambit military and scientific with results of finished products not high quality, +5% increase in the population,


Theme: Capitalism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Capitalism is a economic system where things (property, for example) are owned by people or an individual, not by a government or communities, and where people have to work for money, so they can buy things they need or want, such as food. Capitalism mostly has a "free market" economy, which means people buy and sell things by their own judgment.
Effects: + trading relationship with foreign contries, increase in social class, + 20% increased production but of good quality,

I'm not sure if communism should instantly mean poor quality stuff. Which is the reason I am trying to think of a way to be able to somewhat design your own government... hmmm....

Good ideas, I believe that I can help you with communism's effects.
Communism
Effects: +20% Science, production, administration, and stability. Bonus to discipline. Better relations with other communist nations, lower relations to nations with other types of governments. -20% happiness, -10% influence, higher revolt rate if you are a cruel leader (that might disappoint some people
Also, has this become a brainstorm thread where we post different types of governments and their effects?

Calfeggs wrote:

Doggit wrote:

I made these two types of government. I am a little uncertain about effects .. you can help me improve?


Theme: Communism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Communism is a political way of thinking and an idea of how society should work and be organized. Communism is a kind of socialism that says that there should not be social classes or states. Communism says that the people of any and every place in the world should all own the tools, factories, and farms that are used to produce goods and food. This social process is known as common ownership. In a communist society, there is no private property.
Effects: - trading relationship with foreign countries, elimination of social classes, +30% increased production in the ambit military and scientific with results of finished products not high quality, +5% increase in the population,


Theme: Capitalism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Capitalism is a economic system where things (property, for example) are owned by people or an individual, not by a government or communities, and where people have to work for money, so they can buy things they need or want, such as food. Capitalism mostly has a "free market" economy, which means people buy and sell things by their own judgment.
Effects: + trading relationship with foreign contries, increase in social class, + 20% increased production but of good quality,

I'm not sure if communism should instantly mean poor quality stuff. Which is the reason I am trying to think of a way to be able to somewhat design your own government... hmmm....

I was inspired by our human history. Soviet communism, within astronautical produced means of poor quality: for example as regards the missions on mars, the landing of the first Soviet probe occurred after the ninth attempt, while as regards the American probes only after the second.
Not to mention the deaths of Soviet astronauts occurred, inevitably, to a mechanical low quality.

If you think that you need to change just say so and motivate.

Doggit wrote:

Calfeggs wrote:

Doggit wrote:

I made these two types of government. I am a little uncertain about effects .. you can help me improve?


Theme: Communism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Communism is a political way of thinking and an idea of how society should work and be organized. Communism is a kind of socialism that says that there should not be social classes or states. Communism says that the people of any and every place in the world should all own the tools, factories, and farms that are used to produce goods and food. This social process is known as common ownership. In a communist society, there is no private property.
Effects: - trading relationship with foreign countries, elimination of social classes, +30% increased production in the ambit military and scientific with results of finished products not high quality, +5% increase in the population,


Theme: Capitalism
Trait Name: ...
Description: Capitalism is a economic system where things (property, for example) are owned by people or an individual, not by a government or communities, and where people have to work for money, so they can buy things they need or want, such as food. Capitalism mostly has a "free market" economy, which means people buy and sell things by their own judgment.
Effects: + trading relationship with foreign contries, increase in social class, + 20% increased production but of good quality,

I'm not sure if communism should instantly mean poor quality stuff. Which is the reason I am trying to think of a way to be able to somewhat design your own government... hmmm....

I was inspired by our human history. Soviet communism, within astronautical produced means of poor quality: for example as regards the missions on mars, the landing of the first Soviet probe occurred after the ninth attempt, while as regards the American probes only after the second.
Not to mention the deaths of Soviet astronauts occurred, inevitably, to a mechanical low quality.

If you think that you need to change just say so and motivate.

Well, I figure this game is all about making your own history. Why base something off of humans? Really, they aren't my favorite species ever...

PS: For some reason, I feel like talking to Doggit (you) is like talking to some kind of god. Your music is great, thanks for your contribution to the best game idea ever :3

Jacelevo72 wrote:

Good ideas, I believe that I can help you with communism's effects.
Communism
Effects: +20% Science, production, administration, and stability. Bonus to discipline. Better relations with other communist nations, lower relations to nations with other types of governments. -20% happiness, -10% influence, higher revolt rate if you are a cruel leader (that might disappoint some people
Also, has this become a brainstorm thread where we post different types of governments and their effects?
Anyone is free to edit any of my ideas.

I like it but i thinks +20% for science is more...i think +5/10% its better.

Now another type of government

Theme: Dictatorship
Trait Name: ...
Description: A dictatorship is a country where one person or political party has the power to do whatever he or she wants. The ruler is called a dictator. In a dictatorship, people usually do not have many rights or much freedom.
Effects: - trading relationship with foreign countries, +20% increased production in the ambit military , +15%improvement of the army, +35% morale of the soldiers, easy handling social, -10% happiness, +5% increase in the population

Theme: Robocracy
Trait Name: ...
Description: System of government in which the economy is not supported by most forces by living beings, but by robots, enabling citizens to stop working and dedicate themselves to work only for voluntary or passion.
The administrative part is controlled by qualified citizens, while the military is always about robots.
This type of government needs a big knowledge of science and technology to enable this government.
Effects: +50% increased production , + 45 happiness, + aid volunteer, -5% increase in the population, more improves the quality of the robot more is a revolt by their


anyone can give me some ideas about different types of government and its effects

I really like these ideas, I think that for the government, you should be able to start with a few basic governments, and depending on the levels that increase as you progress, more governments are unlocked. Like Monarchy to Dictatorship. Anyways, we can expand or deny this idea soon. I have more governments.

Name: Absolute Monarchy
Description: One Monarch rules with an iron fist. He has no laws that restrict him from doing anything. The monarch's word is law and he commands all aspects of the government. It differs from Dictatorship in that the King/Queen is passed down to the next generation by Heredity. This can prevent new ideas needed to progress further. If you guys agree with my theory above It can lead to other governments. It is a starting government (please say if you agree)
Effect: +20% Administration, +15% Tax Efficiency, Morale, and discipline, +5% Production and science. -20% Happiness, -15% stability and influence, and a 10% increase of revolt.
Leads to: Dictatorship, Communism, and Empire Government

Name: Constitutional Monarchy
Description: A Monarch still rules, but he must follow a constitution and obey the laws set for the nation. It differs from a Republic in that a monarch still rules single-handedly. This can also lead to a new branch of government.
Effect: +20% production and science, +15% Morale, Discipline, and Happiness. +10% Administration.-20% Influence?, -15% stability, and -10% Tax and Tariff efficiency
Leads to: Oliglarchy and Theocracy

Name: Early Republic
Description: A early form of later free governments. Leaders are elected and multiple houses can be used to verify the leaders' opinion. People in republics usually have the most happiness and freedom. not to be confused with Constitutional Monarchy, they are very different.
Effects: +20% Happiness, +15% morale and influence, +10% population growth. Low chance of revolt. -20% Administration, -15% discipline, Tax, and Tariff efficiency, -10% manpower, -5% production and science.
Leads to: Democracy, later republics

In my opinion, these three governments would make perfect starting governments as many early nations used these governments. These will lead to later governments and people should be allowed to make MINOR adjustments to their government. Please post your opinion as well.

Guys, great work with all this brainstorming!

However, governments can't just be a list like we have with resources and cultures. The important part of governments is that they are composed of two parts, a model and a form.
The model of a government is the base foundation, such as monarchy, republic, tribalism, despotism, empire, etc. These need to be distinct and not overlap too much. The model of a government is the part of the name that cannot be changed.
The form of a government is the adjective that describes the model, such as tribal, constitutional, absolute, mercantile, bureaucratic, feudal, etc.

Therefore any government is just a composition of one model, and one form. In an Absolute Monarchy, the Absolute is the form and the Monarchy is the model. Here is a list where we can organize our current lists of forms and models.

MODELS

Monarchy
Republic
Empire
Tribalism
Despotism

FORMS

Tribal
Feudal/Noble
Administrative/Bureaucratic
Imperial
Constitutional
Absolute/Enlightened
Theocratic/Religious
Military

Of course certain combinations of models and forms do not work, like Imperial Empire, or Tribal Tribalism. Also note that there is no such thing as "Early" governments. A republic founded 2000 years ago can be the exact same model as a republic founded today. Instead, the variable that changes is administration. Also, these models and forms are all unlocked by researching the appropriate technology. Therefore, early governments will be simulated without a distinct government form called "Early".

Also, communism isn't a government form, and neither is robocracy. Both of those are economic models that will be simulated in game. Communism can be achieved by setting the Economic Freedoms slider very low, with any further possibilities of achieving it to be determined. Robocracy can be achieved when robotics is discovered, by replacing workers in factories with robots.

Lastly, I am really glad to see you guys using the in game variables, but you don't have to worry about those right now. For now it is important just to get a list of the different government models and forms, while we also work to pin down the effects and workings of the other variables in game.

Thank you for clarifying. I will help in other threads

NickTheNick wrote:

Guys, great work with all this brainstorming!

However, governments can't just be a list like we have with resources and cultures. The important part of governments is that they are composed of two parts, a model and a form.
The model of a government is the base foundation, such as monarchy, republic, tribalism, despotism, empire, etc. These need to be distinct and not overlap too much. The model of a government is the part of the name that cannot be changed.
The form of a government is the adjective that describes the model, such as tribal, constitutional, absolute, mercantile, bureaucratic, feudal, etc.

Therefore any government is just a composition of one model, and one form. In an Absolute Monarchy, the Absolute is the form and the Monarchy is the model. Here is a list where we can organize our current lists of forms and models.

MODELS

Monarchy
Republic
Empire
Tribalism
Despotism

FORMS

Tribal
Feudal/Noble
Administrative/Bureaucratic
Imperial
Constitutional
Absolute/Enlightened
Theocratic/Religious

Of course certain combinations of models and forms do not work, like Imperial Empire, or Tribal Tribalism. Also note that there is no such thing as "Early" governments. A republic founded 2000 years ago can be the exact same model as a republic founded today. Instead, the variable that changes is administration. Also, these models and forms are all unlocked by researching the appropriate technology. Therefore, early governments will be simulated without a distinct government form called "Early".

Also, communism isn't a government form, and neither is robocracy. Both of those are economic models that will be simulated in game. Communism can be achieved by setting the Economic Freedoms slider very low, with any further possibilities of achieving it to be determined. Robocracy can be achieved when robotics is discovered, by replacing workers in factories with robots.

Lastly, I am really glad to see you guys using the in game variables, but you don't have to worry about those right now. For now it is important just to get a list of the different government models and forms, while we also work to pin down the effects and workings of the other variables in game.

but there may be economic systems like communism, capitalism and dictatorial or theocratic form of government?

Economies won't be "picked", like governments are picked. They are a very complex thing that will evolve on its own. It can very well become a communist or capitalist economy.

Theocracy is already a form of government. Despotism is just another word for dictatorial.