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Latest topics | » THIS FORUM IS NOW OBSOLETE by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:26 pm
» To all the people who come here looking for thrive. by NickTheNick Sat Sep 26, 2015 10:22 pm
» Build Error Code::Blocks / CMake by crovea Tue Jul 28, 2015 5:28 pm
» Hello! I can translate in japanese by tjwhale Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:23 pm
» On Leave (Offline thread) by NickTheNick Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:20 am
» Devblog #14: A Brave New Forum by NickTheNick Mon Jun 29, 2015 4:49 am
» Application for Programmer by crovea Fri Jun 26, 2015 11:14 am
» Re-Reapplication by The Creator Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:57 pm
» Application (programming) by crovea Tue Jun 23, 2015 8:00 am
» Achieving Sapience by MitochondriaBox Sun Jun 21, 2015 7:03 pm
» Microbe Stage GDD by tjwhale Sat Jun 20, 2015 3:44 pm
» Application for Programmer/ Theorist by tjwhale Wed Jun 17, 2015 9:56 am
» Application for a 3D Modeler. by Kaiju4u Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:16 am
» Presentation by Othithu Tue Jun 02, 2015 10:38 am
» Application of Sorts by crovea Sun May 31, 2015 5:06 pm
» want to contribute by Renzope Sun May 31, 2015 12:58 pm
» Music List Thread (Post New Themes Here) by Oliveriver Thu May 28, 2015 1:06 pm
» Application: English-Spanish translator by Renzope Tue May 26, 2015 1:53 pm
» Want to be promoter or project manager by TheBudderBros Sun May 24, 2015 9:00 pm
» A new round of Forum Revamps! by Oliveriver Wed May 20, 2015 11:32 am
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| Revamping the Forum | |
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+10Thriving Cheese ADMIN untrustedlife hypoxanthine Xazo-Tak WilliamstheJohn ~sciocont NickTheNick Daniferrito Nimbal 14 posters | |
Author | Message |
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hypoxanthine Newcomer
Posts : 25 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2013-05-21 Age : 29
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 4:52 am | |
| but my point is, you wouldnt have had to wait years if you'd crashed your resources at the start for the microbe stage. its the simplest stage and if you dont insist on having every little desired detail in it in and used 2d graphics only in the very first prototype it wouldnt take long at all. anyway, how long does it take to come up with concept ideas? concept artwork, fine, but ideas? i recall you had one new guy come along who hadnt seen the organism editor concept and just came up with the whole idea again, and that it was pretty much the same. just like that. you telling me that all the time you spent discussing it wouldnt have been better spent working on the microbe stage then? it doesnt take years to come up with ideas, and it probably would have been more beneficial to come up with ideas at the same time as they are needed by the programmers. the whole project reminds me of downloading different parts of a file when torrenting. anyway, its a bit late now to go 'shouldve, couldve' so i may as well be quiet about that now. and yes, exam season. just my luck that at the start of my study leave i discover a project like this. | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 7:07 am | |
| The problem is that for a long time this project didnt have any programmers, so everything they could do was discuss about the ideas to keep perfecting them. If you look at the github repo, there was nothing earlier than 6 months ago.
There actually were a few programmers before, but not much substantial work got done (only a menu and some sort of microbe editor, althrough i was unable to recover the code for any of those) | |
| | | hypoxanthine Newcomer
Posts : 25 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2013-05-21 Age : 29
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 9:56 am | |
| ah ok. just interested to know, what are you planning on using to render the water in the cell stage (since just a background with stationary bubbles will look pretty rubbish)? hydrax? | |
| | | Nimbal Programming Team lead
Posts : 258 Reputation : 24 Join date : 2013-03-17 Age : 40 Location : Ratingen, Germany
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 11:37 am | |
| - hypoxanthine wrote:
- ah ok. just interested to know, what are you planning on using to render the water in the cell stage (since just a background with stationary bubbles will look pretty rubbish)? hydrax?
I agree completely, but we should probably take this discussion to a more appropriate thread or forum. The "Visual" seems right, more specifically the "Cell Stage Graphics" thread in there. BTW, awesome signature! | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 7:19 pm | |
| - hypoxanthine wrote:
- but my point is, you wouldnt have had to wait years if you'd crashed your resources at the start for the microbe stage. its the simplest stage and if you dont insist on having every little desired detail in it in and used 2d graphics only in the very first prototype it wouldnt take long at all. anyway, how long does it take to come up with concept ideas? concept artwork, fine, but ideas? i recall you had one new guy come along who hadnt seen the organism editor concept and just came up with the whole idea again, and that it was pretty much the same. just like that. you telling me that all the time you spent discussing it wouldnt have been better spent working on the microbe stage then? it doesnt take years to come up with ideas, and it probably would have been more beneficial to come up with ideas at the same time as they are needed by the programmers. the whole project reminds me of downloading different parts of a file when torrenting. anyway, its a bit late now to go 'shouldve, couldve' so i may as well be quiet about that now. and yes, exam season. just my luck that at the start of my study leave i discover a project like this.
Well that was the whole purpose of the Building Microbe Stage thread. Concept ideas get more complex the later into the game you go. The Tech Editor is especially hard, because how do you create an editor that allows the player to create tools, vehicles, and buildings all in the same editor without too many presets? That guy who gave an idea for the Organism Editor gave the general gist of the Organism Editor's current concept, but he didn't reinvent the wheel. The OE CC is far more detailed than what he suggested (and no offense to him he was just giving an idea). Now, this response is quite long so I put it in a spoiler. - Spoiler:
Also, I'm not saying the time spent on this stuff isn't better spent on the Microbe Stage. I'm saying, like I just said before, that any time not spent on the Microbe Stage should not be discarded, because we have made tremendous gains in not-microbe stage, gains that we would have had to make later anyways. Any time we could have or can spend on the Microbe Stage is good, but that doesn't mean whenever we don't have contributions for the Microbe Stage we should ignore our contributions for the later stages. Also, coming up with ideas at the same time as programmers is not a good idea at all, because then the programmers have to sit and wait while the concept is being developed, instead of having as much concept ready as possible when the programmers reach that stage.
Let's take an example, the one I keep referencing, the Tech Editor (TE). The TE has taken this long to develop (and is still developing) because at first the general concept was created, but no one wanted to or could specify it. It was just assumed that the programmers could make an editor that would analyze anything the player made and figure out how it would work and all the other details. Then, for a long period, there was no work on the TE because this mentality persisted and because there were not really any new users enthusiastic enough in that field to take a hold of that concept and refine it. However, when I was continuing the Crash Course Economics thread, I realized we had to specify the TE further, since it was too vague for implementation and left us with too many questions about gameplay. By this point about 3 years had already passed. Ever since then users like Daniferrito, Tarpy, and I have been working on the concepts of Function Parts (an integral component of the TE) to figure out how the TE will work. We have already been working for about 1-2 months on it and have made much progress, but we still have a ways to go. Remember, we are all voluntary contributors and many of us are still in school or university. We have currently slowed down because of exams, but we should be picking up again soon.
But what you're saying is that none of this should have been done because the Microbe Stage was unfinished. I myself have little in the means of constructive contributions for the Microbe Stage, being more of a Strategy person myself. Several people who have helped develop the Strategy concepts have likewise been more interested in the Strategy part than the Microbe part. I don't think it would be efficient or fair to force them to remain silent until development reached a point that they liked. Why not let them develop the other stages of the game additionally? If we had waited until the Microbe, Multicellular, Aware, and Awakening Stages were complete, and the Society Stage was being worked on, before we started work on the concept for the Tech Editor, chances are I, and many of the other people who helped out, would no longer be here to develop the concept, or would have gotten fed up waiting and gone, or forgotten their ideas, or lost interest. Even if we were all around, the programmers would have to wait for us to develop the concepts over the months it has taken us and in the meantime be stuck not being able to do anything. It is SOO much better to have it done before, or at least as much as possible, so that when the coders are ready there is minimal conceptual work left in the way. When we have the capability to develop these concepts at any moment, we need to "strike while the iron is hot", instead of wait and lose most of the potential. Just a couple weeks ago, ExtraSolar dropped by and gave some amazing input into our Procedural Planet Generator concept and updated our wiki page on it. If we had told him to wait until however many years from now we would be at the space stage not only would we delay the programmers by making them wait for the concept to be done instead of having done it before, we also run the chance of not having ExtraSolar around anymore.
tl;dr It is more effective to allow a freedom of contribution instead of restricting creativity into one area. Yes, its a shame to learn of this right before exams. I learned of this on my second day into a vacation, and had to wait the whole trip until I could come home and contribute using my computer.
Last edited by NickTheNick on Thu May 23, 2013 8:42 pm; edited 2 times in total | |
| | | ~sciocont Overall Team Lead
Posts : 3406 Reputation : 138 Join date : 2010-07-06
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 8:04 pm | |
| hypox, the life of this project has essentially been us figuring out what the hell we were doing. It started as an Idea, and we've been honing it towards a more and more realistic approach to a game. Many of our members from two or more years ago aren't here anymore because they couldn't contribute or their life got in the way of serious time commitment to the project. It's only been very recently that I've actually seen a game on the horizon. For a while we had no programmers, no expertise, and the project was essentially an intellectual exercise. So forgive us for being inefficient with our time, but it's just been in the past 6 months that we've been able to pull together enough resources to make this work. | |
| | | untrustedlife Regular
Posts : 252 Reputation : 19 Join date : 2013-03-26 Location : [Classified]
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Thu May 23, 2013 10:25 pm | |
| I haven't been active lately due to finals, Wednesday I will start back up on what I was doing though. | |
| | | ADMIN Admin
Posts : 30 Reputation : 5 Join date : 2010-07-06 Location : Watching.
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:56 pm | |
| Consider the forum "revamped". At least somewhat. You'll notice that we're following Nimbal's proposed design, but I need the help of the mods to keep things rolling. Over the next few months, mods, please go through threads and tag their titles with ARC for Archive or DEL for straight-up deletion. Once a thread has accrued two of the same tags, a mod can move it to the Archive or delete it. Once this is reasonably complete, I will start deleting some of the smaller forums and adding them to the bigger ones. | |
| | | WilliamstheJohn Regular
Posts : 409 Reputation : 10 Join date : 2012-12-26 Age : 31 Location : Third Rock from Sol
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Sun Jun 09, 2013 1:59 pm | |
| Good. I hope it starts soon. | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Sun Jun 09, 2013 8:44 pm | |
| I've got some suggestions.
First off, is it just me or are the colours changed? Everything is a much darker brownish/green. I preferred the previous, lighter green more.
Under the Get Involved subforum, create a separate Introductions or Welcome subforum. Also create a subforum called Other to stash away lots of those miscellaneous topics.
Programming only has one subforum and no topics, and that subforum, called Programming as well, is what holds all the threads. You could eliminate one step in that process by merging those two.
Also, I think the Sound and Graphics subforums should be given some subforums of their own as well, since they are both just big messes right now. However, I can't think of how best to organize them, so I ask for ideas for that.
Overall though, I think it is a very nice, clean, design, and although I had grown used to the other layout, I think this is and will be far better. | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:07 am | |
| I agree on Nick about the programing subforum/subsection. There should not be two layers.
What would DEL or ARC mean? When should we use one or the other?
As i see it (but i'm not sure), DEL would be for off-topic threads that never added anything usefull. Like a "merry christmas" thread.
ARC would be for threads that are no longer usefull (we discarded the idea, or we are discussing it somewhere else). Like duplicated threads, only leaving the most recent. Those two could be separated so threads with good information, but no longer used are easy to discern from threads that are meaningfull for Thrive's hystory, but no longer valid.
Now, what about things in between? I can think of two cases: Threads where someone asks a small question (which should have been done in the miscelaneous questions thread anyway), gets answered, and thats it. Threads with sugestions that were discarded swiftly. Like the "use space engine" that popped a few times alredy.
Any guidelines about it so we all use the same scheme?
Finally, you could clean a bit the listed moderators. If I'm alredy in the moderators group, and that group can moderate every subforum, there is no point in having me listed in most subforums a second time (and Seregon as well)
Edit: @Nick: I actually havent noticed any change on the colours at all. Maybe your monitor lost brightness? | |
| | | Thriving Cheese Art Team Lead
Posts : 321 Reputation : 9 Join date : 2013-01-06 Age : 25 Location : Sweden
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:22 am | |
| - Daniferrito wrote:
- Edit: @Nick: I actually havent noticed any change on the colours at all. Maybe your monitor lost brightness?
But it's become darker on both this computer I'm on now and my own computer at home too... | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:42 am | |
| Maybe mine just became brighter when the forums changed colour. If it was las friday it would make sense, as then was when i moved back home. | |
| | | WilliamstheJohn Regular
Posts : 409 Reputation : 10 Join date : 2012-12-26 Age : 31 Location : Third Rock from Sol
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:09 am | |
| It also looks darker to me. What happened? | |
| | | ~sciocont Overall Team Lead
Posts : 3406 Reputation : 138 Join date : 2010-07-06
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 10:48 am | |
| I did change the colors a bit just to experiment with some visibility issues. I'll go back through and sort the subforums a little bit as Nick suggested. Dani, you've hit the nail on the head. ARC is for threads which may contain useful information but are functionally dead, DEl is for threads that are useless, where someone asked a question that was already addressed or just created a thread that has no developmental purpose and isn't a welcome or something of the sorts. | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:22 pm | |
| I hate to be picky, but could you change the colour to halfway between the aforementioned dark one and what it is now, since now the words on the side and top tabs are harder to read with less contrast. I appreciate all the work you are doing to listen to our suggestions and improve the forum. | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Tue Jun 18, 2013 1:15 am | |
| I suggest that the Introductory threads be lumped into their own sub-forum called "Welcome" of something of the sorts soon, because the Get Involved section is getting quite messy.
Also, as a side note, the colours look very good now, thanks. | |
| | | AwesomeSiebren Newcomer
Posts : 84 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2013-07-20 Age : 24 Location : Netherlands
| Subject: Build-up Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:00 pm | |
| I couldn't find another logical place for this, so... I am thinking about a new build-up(if possible). Here is what I think:
***General/Must-read*** Global Announcements [put announcements here] Get Involved [Forum language [Instructions] [What is Thrive?] Development Blog [Put devblogs here, newest to oldest] [Must read if new] [Important stuff like breakthroughs and urgent topics] [Stuff needed soon] [Other] Forum-Help [Common questions] [Found problems] [Other] General Discussion [Take the species-thread as an example]
***Archive*** This is for easy acces Prototypes [Main] [Microbe] [Multi-cellular] [Awakening] etc. Music Same build-up Sounds Same build-up Graphics Same build-up
***Development*** Discussion [Game-Functions] [Auto-Evo] [How to handle politics] etc. Programming [Programming stuffs] etc. Music [Styles?] [Needs] [Co-op] These are just place holder threads, if they make no sense, unfortunate. etc. This is just meant for a good build-up and structure Sound [Microbe] [Ambient] etc. Graphic [General] [Microbe] [Backgrounds] [Models] etc. [Multi-Cellular] Outreach [Legal] [Certificate] [Promotion]
This took me half an hour. Hope it gives someone ideas or someting.
Greetings Siebren. ;D | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:16 pm | |
| You mistake the meaning of the Archive. It is for old or outdated threads that need not be deleted but are not up-to-date. Other than that, it mostly looks like what we already have right now. | |
| | | AwesomeSiebren Newcomer
Posts : 84 Reputation : 0 Join date : 2013-07-20 Age : 24 Location : Netherlands
| Subject: Moved Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:21 pm | |
| I moved around some stuff. And I thought about how I ordened the general section. If you are new, what you have to read pretty fast is put in general. Further yeah, archive is wrong now. But I can't updat it till tomorrow, because I'm in bed now.
Will update soon. ;D | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Tue Jul 30, 2013 6:26 pm | |
| No offense, but I don't see the point in revising that. It is basically the same approach as to what we already have right now. The only change to be made is an Announcements subforum, something suggested a while back. | |
| | | Inca Regular
Posts : 250 Reputation : 10 Join date : 2013-07-03 Age : 30 Location : England
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Tue Jul 30, 2013 7:32 pm | |
| The announcements forum is something I think we should definitely implement. It would mean we can post announcements there instead of having them stickied all over the place. It would also mean they can just sink down when they are no longer relevant. (Surely we don't still need Theme Change and Permission Change stickied), they should be moved to the announcements forum along with anything else of that nature once its been created, in my opinion. | |
| | | Daniferrito Experienced
Posts : 726 Reputation : 70 Join date : 2012-10-10 Age : 30 Location : Spain
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Wed Jul 31, 2013 7:13 am | |
| I actually agree with Inca here. | |
| | | moopli Developer
Posts : 318 Reputation : 56 Join date : 2013-09-30 Age : 29 Location : hanging from the chandelier
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Fri May 16, 2014 11:28 pm | |
| A meta-complaint: I have some things about the forum, policies (or apparent lack thereof) that I want to complain about -- or rather, suggest as next steps in your current attempts to get this place more serious and developy. However, after poring over the forums I've realised that the only place I can think of to present my suggestions (ie, this subforum) is filled with fanboyism in the form of game suggestions, not forum suggestions. Upon reading this thread I was very surprised that this place is policed at all, since I'd've thought that all that stuff would've been cleaned out of this subforum and into some sort of "present your big awesome idea here so we can shoot it down" place, in the wilderness beyond the confines of developer-with-approved-application land. So here's my big awesome idea: split the game suggestions and forum/policy suggestions, and put the new game suggestions subforum in userland next to applications. Potential corollaries:
- To save yourselves the headache of heavy-handed thread-closing, you can let them police themselves with regards to all the already-answered questions, already-suggested suggestions, etc.
- Maybe with a monthly mass-archiving, you can keep it relatively uncluttered, and you'll get some useful info on what things people bother registering to ask or say. With numbers! Everyone likes statistics! Yay!
If this has merit, then whomever sees merit first can split off a thread~ | |
| | | NickTheNick Overall Team Co-Lead
Posts : 2312 Reputation : 175 Join date : 2012-07-22 Age : 28 Location : Canada
| Subject: Re: Revamping the Forum Sat May 17, 2014 4:39 am | |
| I think that sounds like a good idea, and if another mod is also willing to approve it, I can get started on making the change. | |
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