Natural Solar and Planetary Phenomena

We probably shouldn't worry abou those- even if they are common, it's probably not a great place to raise responsible planets who bear life when they grow up. Seems like a rough neighborhood.

Uteen, great concept, but please don't play with entropy or chaos. They don't make good playmates, kid.

Tilted orbits are go, but remember people that the orbit remains in it's own plane even when it leaves that of the main solar disk. This is easy to program. scio is talking about orbits that not only go around and around on the same plane, but look like a massive ball of string.

Therefore, I say no so that I can a) save my poor laptop b) save bashi and our other coders. Calc nightmare.

What do you guys think about broken parts of Space Time? Basically, a broken area would be an area in space where time is slowed, sped up, or even reversed. Or it could be 0˚ K and time would be stopped... So you could go to some solar system in the space stage and find a star living backwards... It would go from a cloud of gasses to a supernova, then a supergiant, and eventually a protostar...

I don't know how you could program this, and how it'll even wrk if you go into the broken spot, but it still sounds pretty cool .:)

Dudeman wrote:

What do you guys think about broken parts of Space Time? Basically, a broken area would be an area in space where time is slowed, sped up, or even reversed. Or it could be 0˚ K and time would be stopped... So you could go to some solar system in the space stage and find a star living backwards... It would go from a cloud of gasses to a supernova, then a supergiant, and eventually a protostar...

I don't know how you could program this, and how it'll even wrk if you go into the broken spot, but it still sounds pretty cool .:)

Eh... God tools? You can do this stuff with god tools, but I'm not sure about in-game. We had a thread that has evaded me since where we discussed pre-programmed specific events that could happen. I suppose this could be one. A pretty rare one, though. Although, if time was stopped in a region, you'd enter it and the rest of the universe would suddenly die. That would be a disappointment. And a star living backwards would have to undestroy things around it when it unhit supernova, which would then age forwards... So how were they created? Sorry, I'm objecting to everything again... It should be possible to program, but it's not the programming that worries me... It's the mess.

The Uteen wrote:

Dudeman wrote:

What do you guys think about broken parts of Space Time? Basically, a broken area would be an area in space where time is slowed, sped up, or even reversed. Or it could be 0˚ K and time would be stopped... So you could go to some solar system in the space stage and find a star living backwards... It would go from a cloud of gasses to a supernova, then a supergiant, and eventually a protostar...

I don't know how you could program this, and how it'll even wrk if you go into the broken spot, but it still sounds pretty cool .:)

Eh... God tools? You can do this stuff with god tools, but I'm not sure about in-game. We had a thread that has evaded me since where we discussed pre-programmed specific events that could happen. I suppose this could be one. A pretty rare one, though. Although, if time was stopped in a region, you'd enter it and the rest of the universe would suddenly die. That would be a disappointment. And a star living backwards would have to undestroy things around it when it unhit supernova, which would then age forwards... So how were they created? Sorry, I'm objecting to everything again... It should be possible to program, but it's not the programming that worries me... It's the mess.

God tools seem the most likely way to have this even be possible.

Yes, it's very confusing... And messy. But it would be insanely awesome.

Yeah, local time control god tool has been already proposed I think.

We've concluded that time control would completely break the game earlier.

~sciocont wrote:

We've concluded that time control would completely break the game earlier.

Okay, I won't add it then.

~sciocont wrote:

We've concluded that time control would completely break the game earlier.

That was time control as jumping in time and reversing it's flow. Changing just the speed of the flow was much better I think.

Commander Keen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

We've concluded that time control would completely break the game earlier.

That was time control as jumping in time and reversing it's flow. Changing just the speed of the flow was much better I think.

It would still break the game if applied to only one region. Physics would break, because some actons simply couldn't happen.

Intact physics is usually nice. And remember, people, if we can't do the math for the god tools, we can't have the god tools. (Also, never leave your code wires exposed to the casual investigator. They fry quite easily.)

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Intact physics is usually nice. And remember, people, if we can't do the math for the god tools, we can't have the god tools. (Also, never leave your code wires exposed to the casual investigator. They fry quite easily.)

so we need a physics expert for assistance or a coder that has done this kind of things before

Yup, still looking for a physics person.
As far as coding... well, some of the "don't touch that you'll get fried" should be perfectly obvious if you actually know what kind of iinformation the things you're poking with a stick contain. (Even I can figure out what the red wires are for the sims, for example...)
If it changes a core function of the game, the game will break. That's more or less how you tell.

Hang on, is this the physics of time flowing at different rates in different locations? Well, I'd like to point out this: there's no such thing, so no physics expert can help you. Time travels at the same speed everywhere. Only during acceleration and deceleration will an object change it rate of travel into the future. I read it in a book. But the same book also said objects moving closer to the speed of light have a slower rate of travel into the future, with no mention of acceleration. But it also said there is no absolute motion, which means the speed of light would always be relative to something. Could a physics expert explain which of this seemingly contradicting theories are true? I'm confused. And I do normally understand sciencey stuff.

This book is not complete rubbish, by the way. It was written by Brian Cox. It should be true. However confusing and contradictory.

But if we have time flowing at different rates at different places, then we'll have to make up our own physics. I know that.

The Uteen wrote:

But if we have time flowing at different rates at different places, then we'll have to make up our own physics. I know that.

The same applies to other God tools, though. How would you want to create entire solar systems from nothing?

There has to be a way to speed up evolution. Imagine playing as an ascended civ, creating simple life on a planet and then waiting bilions of years for it to evolve.

Commander Keen wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

But if we have time flowing at different rates at different places, then we'll have to make up our own physics. I know that.

The same applies to other God tools, though. How would you want to create entire solar systems from nothing?

There has to be a way to speed up evolution. Imagine playing as an ascended civ, creating simple life on a planet and then waiting bilions of years for it to evolve.

Keen... by the time that you are ascended, you'll probably be better off genetically manipulating the mess from the get-go, rather than mucking around in the fourth dimension... I'm certain that the things you want your own universal tardis or delorian for can be achieved with creative application of god tools which are less messy, physics-programming wise.

That said, we still need a physics person to do the "normal" math, so we know what we'd be able to program, what we can get away with breaking, and what's best swept under the rug.

@ Uteen - there is a reason why I like the physical sciences. A rock is a rock, or a mineral, or a fossil, or a collection of chemicals, not a function of m, e, or any other such thing.

I think speeding up and slowing down time in an area would be possible to put in the game, because it isn't as complicated as real life, and laws can be broken. But stopping and reversing time in an area would be much, much harder, the latter near impossible, because you'd get tons of paradoxes from the start.

uteen- you speak of relativity, first explained by the man himself, Albert Einstein.

If you speed up mutation, you speed up evolution, Keen.
http://blogs.inquirer.net/insidescience/2010/12/21/japan-bio-scientists-produce-singing-mouse/

I just think it might be nice to be able to speed up natural processes without interfering in them. Though when I think of it, it could cause some serious trouble for evolution from the coding standpoint.

~sciocont wrote:

uteen- you speak of relativity, first explained by the man himself, Albert Einstein.

If you speed up mutation, you speed up evolution, Keen.
http://blogs.inquirer.net/insidescience/2010/12/21/japan-bio-scientists-produce-singing-mouse/

now you know also why i keep away from time talks XD when i start i will undoubtedly speak against my own saying
but basic's are whatever theory you use; some say both way's is possible. and others say that you can only use a black hole for time travel, and others say that you only can travel forwards and others combine the black hole forwards theories so even on that we can't be truly clear and then you have the speed of light thingy that also has that forward time travel but you need the power of the cosmos to achieve such speed or atleast we are talking about more power then 10 sol suns produces combined

Raven Destroyer wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

uteen- you speak of relativity, first explained by the man himself, Albert Einstein.

If you speed up mutation, you speed up evolution, Keen.
http://blogs.inquirer.net/insidescience/2010/12/21/japan-bio-scientists-produce-singing-mouse/

now you know also why i keep away from time talks XD when i start i will undoubtedly speak against my own saying
but basic's are whatever theory you use; some say both way's is possible. and others say that you can only use a black hole for time travel, and others say that you only can travel forwards and others combine the black hole forwards theories so even on that we can't be truly clear and then you have the speed of light thingy that also has that forward time travel but you need the power of the cosmos to achieve such speed or atleast we are talking about more power then 10 sol suns produces combined

You mean time dilation? I think we're going with Einstein's theory on that. (excluding god tools of course)
(For those that aren't familiar with the theory, Einstein predicts you get time dilation in intense gravitational fields and when you accelerate to high speeds (the latter has been proven in the particle accelerator (but actually, you always get this dilation, but you only notice it fairly close to the speed of light (and also, please note I don't understand the theory completely, don't expect me to know how he got e=mc (at least until I finish this book (too many brackets again... (prepare for a bracket attack!))))))



Speaking of time dilation, will we be simulating it, to keep the game realistic? And if so, what will happen to our faster-than-light space travel, which we have, but is physically impossible to fit into modern physics? Will it make time go backwards? ...It's frustratingly hard to accurately simulate laws of physics we don't have...

Don't worry if it goes over your head, Uteen. In my experience, Physics on that scale usually makes a rude noise as it sails overhead.

As far as time dialation... I dunno. I get the feeling, though, that it's so small that unless you are a quark or traveling at the speed of light, you're not going to notice it much. From what I know, it doesn't normally get more than a millisecond or so.

Of course, I could be wrong... and Raven, I'm not certain what the consensus was on black holes versus wormholes versus other random space phenomena that could be simulated, but I'm pretty sure the options were
1) feasible
2) you will be crushed like a bug.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Don't worry if it goes over your head, Uteen. In my experience, Physics on that scale usually makes a rude noise as it sails overhead.

As far as time dialation... I dunno. I get the feeling, though, that it's so small that unless you are a quark or traveling at the speed of light, you're not going to notice it much. From what I know, it doesn't normally get more than a millisecond or so.

Of course, I could be wrong... and Raven, I'm not certain what the consensus was on black holes versus wormholes versus other random space phenomena that could be simulated, but I'm pretty sure the options were
1) feasible
2) you will be crushed like a bug.

I think wormholes would be just travelling in normal space. It's complicated, but I think I understand the idea, and it probably wouldn't be that easy, because a wormhole wouldn't be that obvious.

I'll give an analogy: Imagine a hill. That hill represents curved space. Now, an ant is very small. It can't tell the ground slopes. It has a job carrying leaves at the other side of the hill, and every day it has to get in its car and make the journey to work. It sets off in its car, but its car guzzles down petrol fast, so it has to stop off at the petrol station every day to refuel, which makes it late for work! But the ant is travelling on a road that goes in a straight line, from his home to work. He can't get there any quicker. One day, the ant installs a SAT NAV in its car. He follows the SAT NAV to work, which takes him a slightly different route, and somehow this other route gets him to work quicker, without the need to refuel! 'How is this possible?' he thinks. You see, the ant thought he was travelling in a straight line to work, he can't tell there's a hill. But when he followed the SAT NAV, it took him through a tunnel 'Worm's Holes Co.' burrowed to make travel quicker. This tunnel goes straight through the hill, not over it like the road did. The ant now saves a lot more money by refuelling less frequently, and got promoted to a job carrying small animals for being persistently on time! To this day the ant still doesn't understand how he can get to work quicker than normal. He thinks it's magic.


I hope you understand wormholes better now.
...And they are nothing to do with black holes. They are stars which have become so massive their gravity becomes stronger than the exclusion principle (the one that states two atoms cannot take up the same space) and so the whole thing just collapses into a single point containing the mass of the entire star. So they are a different thing entirely, and far more likely. The chances of a wormhole existing are near zero. So don't go hurling yourselves into black hole, it'd be like the worst pile-on ever.


And I believe it is around 75% the speed of light or more it makes a difference good enough to make you go "This isn't how I imagined it. I feel normal. It's them outside going fast, lucky averages.".

Uteen wrote: Post that made my physics day

See, this is why we need someone to take astronomy or physics, rather than having all the knowlege of a thousand sci-fi movies.

The black hole option was always going to be "you will be crushed like a bug." the wormhole option was either "fire up the infinite improbability drive," or "you will be shredded."

Uteen, that made my day.