Resource Brainstorming

Silver Sterling wrote:

I think we could add poisonous for organisms in it. Because we only building on carbon based life (there are rumors, that there are also silicon based lifeforms out, but we actually don't know enough from other organisms to implement them in the game [A lot of fun for the modder ;)]). So to get to the point, i think much of the elements would be act to the lifeforms like they do on earth. So we already know how the reaction is of the materials and that it most likely woudn't change if we stay by carbon lifeforms.

Ahh ok, I was thinking so as well. As long as everyone else is fine with it we'll use the poisonous property than.

Silver Sterling wrote:

For additional materials, we have a whole
period system, but we should only include materials, we really need and
should also use a simplified system. thats also how i tought about the
materials. Some materials would a bit difficult to sort out.

First i get a list about detailed materials. Could be to detailed for the game, but i get them here for the brainstorming:

[spoiler]Alkali
Metal [Have every of them in would be definitly to much] (shiny, soft,
silvery and highly reactive metal. [So better don't put your paw on it.]
Can be used in electric technology to create batteries, or Calium for explosives.
(Salt has much of natrium in it. So for the game we can take salt as some addition stuff for batteries and possible explosives.)

Alkaline
earth metals (Seems to be a most subordinate material. Most time for
burning stuff [magnesium], etc. So donno if we would need it, or better
depend on something other)

Transition metal (Some intresting stuff inside we already have. Other ones are more for deco or catalyzer)

Metals
(Same as above and i don't think we need some like zin we most time has
as alloyes. Bronze would be something like this. We can yust use it as
an updated copper.)

We won't be focusing on deriving our resources mainly from the periodic table of elements. We also don't want to have too many metals, as we are already holding a hefty list at the moment. The basic metals are the ones that will be used, and those should cover everything from conductive metals to combustible ones.

Silver Sterling wrote:

Spoiler:

So here the usable stuff of the list:

Hydrogen (Usable as fuel for burning directly, in hydrogen oxygen fuel cell, or in fusion reactors)
Oxygen (Lifeforms need it, if they intend to breathe)
source: Hydrogen from gas giants and both from water

Nitrogen (cooling and extinguishing)
source: Atmosphere

Noble
Gases [like Helium] (Lifting gas [ballons, etc.], reaction gas [light
sources], later gases to create plasma as example for ion engines)

Although gases and fuel and combustion will be in the game, I have already said that gases are not a part of this list. They do not fall under the same category as the rest of these resources. I appreciate your suggestion though.

Silver Sterling wrote:

So here also an idea how the materials could be used in technologies:

Spoiler:

The supraconductors gets to another materials:

Mercury (producing of metalic supraconductors. extremly poisonic and liquid metal)
source: (cinnabar crystals near vulcans and hot springs)

Thats actually my way to get new materials.

Tiers are not necessary. Resources are already categorized, and players will naturally experience a progression in the resources they use for construction/equipment with technology changing the availability and use of resources. Alloys will still include the two basic components necessary for production, at least, such as iron and coal for steel, and copper and tin for bronze.

When I think about it, Mercury doesn't seem to have enough use in the TE to warrant itself a spot on this list.

NickTheNick wrote:

We won't be focusing on deriving our resources mainly from the periodic table of elements. We also don't want to have too many metals, as we are already holding a hefty list at the moment. The basic metals are the ones that will be used, and those should cover everything from conductive metals to combustible ones.

Yes, indeed. That was also more a think in progess list, where i have gone over everything. So also the reason i didn't got out with any materials of the list. Actually it was more for showing exactly, what you have written now.

NickTheNick wrote:

Although gases and fuel and combustion will be in the game, I have already said that gases are not a part of this list. They do not fall under the same category as the rest of these resources. I appreciate your suggestion though.

Ah, ok sry, must have read over this part.

Quote :

Tiers are not necessary. Resources are already categorized, and players will naturally experience a progression in the resources they use for construction/equipment with technology changing the availability and use of resources. Alloys will still include the two basic components necessary for production, at least, such as iron and coal for steel, and copper and tin for bronze.

Ah ok, tier is possible the wrong term. More in what technical level it could be included. I was running a bit on human history as i have gotten over this. So something like tier 1 (copper) first one who can worked good with, then tier 2 (iron), etc. to the more advanced materials.

Quote :

When I think about it, Mercury doesn't seem to have enough use in the TE to warrant itself a spot on this list.

Yes, was considering this aswell, because supraconductors can be produced with other materials aswell how mentioned. But it was what i read the first material where the supraconductivity has been found and its one of the only elements (besides bromine), which is liquid in pure form. So i tought i could mention it, if it could be needed for something.

Ok, well i think i am done here now. No other ideas for additional stuff. Possible later sometime.

It's not regarding the word "tier" itself, it is regarding the idea of categorizing resources into different classes that are "unlocked" in any way. These resources are always present on the planet and always available to the player, except for the synthetic ones, and it is just the player's responsibility to create appropriate objects in the TE for collecting the resources. There is nothing stopping a player from using iron in their tools before copper, and we will certainly not restrict them from doing such.

Yea, think i also drifted in a bit to a linear system (Yust was using it for the categories for my brainstorming ideas). (Belgium civilisation playing. when i am even for a non linear system with so many possibilities like possible). For the final game, i am fully with you with another oder of development, if its in a logical way possible.

Great to hear that. Most modern games make it hard for us to think outside of the box. I admit I many times feel like I am restricting myself just to keep things linear. It is important we find the balance between simplicity, science, and playability. Sound familiar?

Yes, indeedy. One of the problems from modern games is the problem that they try to avoid logical game problems and they try to get the game so fast finished how possible. So they become very linear, so they don't have to work out the logical correlation. The game will be finished in short time then, they can reuse much of it and we get a game who is so boring like most other games. And they don't have to track so many logic bugs, like if you give the player a sandbox game. Thats also the reason that sandbox games are mostly indie games. Because indie game developers look more at the game itself and not the money they can earn with it. One of the reason i tend to look more at indie games as on industrial games lately.

And with the restricting, well if we make it for collecting ideas its nothing wrong with it, but we have to rewrite it then for the game, to keep it open and nonlinear. Another good thing, that the game isn't developed by a single person. And yea i tend to think linear aswell often. Matter of habit in such a linear society. :/

Bismuth
Description: A silver metal with a low thermal conductivity. It is brittle and is used it dyes, pigments and Pepto-Bismol.
Source: Underground or in surface deposits.

And here we have another of my ideas, taken too far and without the critical information. Are we honestly just describing random compounds to the thrive community?

A) Simplify this. Half of these are unnecessary. I don't care if it exists in the real world, we don't need everything. It's a game, dammit.

B) What's the point in compounds if there's no conversions between them? Compounds need to be created from other compounds.

Sincerely,
Your antagonist, roadkill.

I'd have to agree with roadkill, quite a few of the resources aren't needed. Some we might be able to merge into one category; as for the others, I have no clue.

An easy way to simplify all metals would be to have

Bronze age
Iron Age
Steel Age/Industry
Modern Metals (For tanks, cars, etc.)
Advanced Metals (for spaceships)
Also luxury metals such as gold

@Raptorstorm: I appreciate your suggestion, but I think Bismuth is too insignificant, even for this list.

@roadkillguy: Sorry roadkill, I didn't realize this was your idea. I had gotten an idea, without knowledge of yours, to make this list to get a list of resources for trading in the economic model of the society stage which I was working on, and for also serving as a list of materials for making things out of in the Tech Editor. If you want I can change the name so that it doesn't overlap with the resources you planned for, although I must admit and apologize because I do not know what the resource system you have is.

Regarding critical information, some of the details may not be useful, especially if you mean critical information in regards to programming, but some of the details are quite significant. Coal being useful as a combustible fuel, iron being a malleable and strong metal for tools and construction. Now we aren't just naming random compounds, the point is to get a good list of elements and compounds and other resources that are useful in trade, construction, tools, etc., and to find the important traits common to certain resources and use that to merge them together, and ultimately have a shorter and simplified list. For example when I look at silver and gold, the thing common between them is that they are aesthetically appealing and serve little purpose other than maybe conductivity. Therefore we can form our first actual resource, Precious Metals. Although diamond is the only gem to be mentioned, we can look at the list and group together all the gems, because for the game's purposes they are very similar, and we can create our second resource, Gems. We then just rinse and repeat this method until we have taken all of the resources and condensed them into a shorter list of resources that can actually be used in game, with every important property or trait being displayed by at least one of the resources in the list. I was thinking that we could simplify the other metals to maybe soft metals and hard metals, or something like that. I am not too sure as I am not very knowledgeable in metallurgy. Raptorstorm is the expert in that, if my memory serves me correctly.

Regarding A), I intend to simplify the list, for the reasons I mentioned above, however I wanted to first get a fleshed out rough draft list of resources. Could you suggest some of the revisions you would make?

Regarding B), well I was planning to get to that after we finished the list. However, I have mentioned that steel is a combo of iron and coal, and I was thinking of making bronze either a combo of tin and copper or just a refinement of copper, but then once we group the resources together copper and iron might get merged.

Sorry for taking so long to express my points, I just couldn't bring myself to cut anything out.

@PTFace: Remember, we don't want to divide metals, or any other resource for that matter, into tiers. Common grouping like I mentioned above would work better.

Roadkillguy?

resource:floating rock
despiriction: it's made of colded magma, and it's only rock type what can float on water.
can be used for cosmetic and as decor, but it's easy to break in parts.
source: underwater volcanoes.

That is not a very significant resource. Nonetheless, I appreciate your effort.

i didn't thinked to it wil be significant, but okay if it isn't enough.

Resource: Sand
Description: It's main value is in its ability to be melted to form glass and use in creating structural material in earlier civilisations. Sand is made from eroded rocks and is commonly found on beaches and in dry, inland areas. It is composed of fine grains and is typically a dull yellow colour.
Sources: Usually found in large deposits on the surface of the crust where much erosion takes place, specifically in beaches and dry inland areas.

I believe sand is eroded at rivers, and brought down by them into the sea. then the sea currents bring some of that sand back into the land forming sandy beaches. I know it doesen't affect the propierties of the sand we care about, but i wanted to make a note.

resource: sticks/branches
description: mainly used in cultural stage, for wood spears and created huts and other buildings and can be found lying on the ground or on a tree.
sources: usually found in forests and jungles and animals will react to sticks and branches by picking them up (beaver type creatures) or even more intelligent creatures picking them up with there hands and using it as a weapon.

That's just wood.

Resource: Electrum (Synthetic)
Description: An alloy of about 50/50% Gold-Silver,used in building monuments (think tops of pyramids) and in currency.
Sources: Mainly found in some alien's forge, but rarely can be found naturally as an ore. (Alloys can rarely be found as ores when extreme heat/pressure fused the two stones0

That metal is too insignificant for our scope.

You wrote in the OP that wool is "highly flammable," when in reality it is not very flammable at all. Also, you should add leather, chitin, and scales as resources.

Oh, yeah, Ill fix that up.

Leather will be called Hides, to encompass other animal skin as well. I didnt realize that wasn't on there.

However, chitin and scales are not major enough resources to be added.

Resource: Carbon Fiber/Nanotubes (Synthetic)
Description: Carbon atoms aligned in a specific pattern to be used in manufacturing spaceships, tall buildings, vehicles, armor, Nano-technology, electronics, and optics.
Sources: Electrical currents are passed through carbon atoms making them rearrange in extremely strong forms.

Resource: Antimatter (Synthetic)
Description: The exact opposite of matter with positrons and anti-protons instead of electrons and protons like matter. It is used for making weapons with a much higher destruction capability than that of a nuclear weapon; also they don’t produce nuclear fallout making them safer to the surrounding areas.
Sources: Large particle accelerators produce Antimatter by crashing small particles into each other.

The first one sounds good, but the second I will have to consider.