Miscellaneous Bugs And Questions That Don't Deserve Their Own Thread Thread

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Wow, great, thanks for answering Nick, I completely forgot about the Specialist system.

Now two of my questions have remained unanswered.

1) Hybridization in general: is it going to be implemented at all, and what sort of ideas for implementation are there?

2) I think it might have been confirmed, the possibility of being knocked back to earlier stages of technology by war, what would happen if a space stage empire had this happen and they are cut off from stellar colonies, what will be done if/when this happens?

Have u ever read Foundation by Isaac Asimov? Basically, he thinked that, the result of an space empire being cut off from colonies would lead to:
a) if only the "capital planet" is left and its too specialized (imagine a planet with no aliments production for example), then the planet almost certainly doomed, unless (but it would be rare), a rebellion on the colonie started and they send resources to this capital.
b) In case they run out of a energy source (ex: plutonium) for whatever (ex: weapons) they will use an older energy source (ex: oil) to continue, but will look in near planets civilizations with this plutonium and either become allies or try to steal it.
c) There are particular cases in which a civilization has a technology, but they dont know how to make it (it was given by another planet either capital or a colony one). As example, giving an old farmer a car (i mean no disrespect in this), he can drive, he can use it, but he doesnt know how to repair it or make another, so given some time, the car will fail and he will be back with his old method.

ccarriel wrote:

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Wow, great, thanks for answering Nick, I completely forgot about the Specialist system.

Now two of my questions have remained unanswered.

1) Hybridization in general: is it going to be implemented at all, and what sort of ideas for implementation are there?

2) I think it might have been confirmed, the possibility of being knocked back to earlier stages of technology by war, what would happen if a space stage empire had this happen and they are cut off from stellar colonies, what will be done if/when this happens?

Have u ever read Foundation by Isaac Asimov? Basically, he thinked that, the result of an space empire being cut off from colonies would lead to:
a) if only the "capital planet" is left and its too specialized (imagine a planet with no aliments production for example), then the planet almost certainly doomed, unless (but it would be rare), a rebellion on the colonie started and they send resources to this capital.
b) In case they run out of a energy source (ex: plutonium) for whatever (ex: weapons) they will use an older energy source (ex: oil) to continue, but will look in near planets civilizations with this plutonium and either become allies or try to steal it.
c) There are particular cases in which a civilization has a technology, but they dont know how to make it (it was given by another planet either capital or a colony one). As example, giving an old farmer a car (i mean no disrespect in this), he can drive, he can use it, but he doesnt know how to repair it or make another, so given some time, the car will fail and he will be back with his old method.

Quite like this.

Ok, Inca ninja'd me.

I'm more getting at what happens with the player's control of their species in this sort of event, will they be given a choice of a colony or the homeworld to control until they can reunite, or something else I haven't thought of yet? The reason being that if an empire is large enough, there are bound to be colonies the enemy missed, what will happen to them?

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Ok, Inca ninja'd me.

I'm more getting at what happens with the player's control of their species in this sort of event, will they be given a choice of a colony or the homeworld to control until they can reunite, or something else I haven't thought of yet? The reason being that if an empire is large enough, there are bound to be colonies the enemy missed, what will happen to them?

Im just guessing but... let me consider it:
a) Restarting the "space stage" from point 0 would be too hard on the player (imagine starting spore`s space stage from scratch when u almost got to the center of the universe)
b) There could be a "load game" option, but enabling a system like that would be hard, especially considering that the game is fluent (in total war series, a battle could determinate the game, if u fail, u can restart the battle, but in thrive, how we can determine the "start" of the problem? (and probably would be near the very start leading to point a))

Thats why i propose this:
In case of an inminent failure because the empire fails for whatever reason:
a) Can choose to stay on the capital, but u must pray loyalty to the biggest enemy (temporaly at least), and probably get technology or specialization to a past point (like in a feudal system), this is because becoming a puppet would be too hard for the player i think.
b) Continue in a colony (already cut off), the argument would be that some traditionalist gained a civil war (in which you are or not the commander) and decided to continue your legacy, however u must adapt ur strategy to this planet and its resources.
c) Send a "last hope colony" to other sector of space (new map), this colony would have all the knowledge u have gathered so far (kinda like superman), diplomatics would restart (new space neighbors) and u would have to terraform or adapt the planet to your needs.

Okay, so what about other surviving colonies, do they just develop into their own splinter factions?

You're right that a load/restart option would be too hard, as far as my opinion goes.

And from a thread by Inca, called confederations integrated empires vassilisation (applies-to-industrial-to-space, where a nation/empire could be forced to become a protectorate of the victor of the war, so maybe that would probably what happens. Of course, it would be hard to tell what the AI would do at that stage anyway, they may just as likely destroy them, or leave them since they won't get much income from the arrangement.

I think that a colony at the very end of the war would be more likely to try to continue the past civilization, unless the approval of the conflict was low there. Over time there would be changes, considering the player would be trying to come back better and stronger than ever, regardless of the player controlling the colony or not.

A "last hope colony" sounds like a practical strategy, maybe something like a last resort plan, but probably possible without special consideration.

I really love Silver Sterling's ideas on Ascension, and they make more sense too.

I'd just like to see extensive terraforming, maybe with a plant/rock editor, and respectable fluid color palettes, etc. Sky color works great as a kind of lighting gel effect, but there could be a lot more in terms of atmosphere and light too.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Okay, so what about other surviving colonies, do they just develop into their own splinter factions?

You're right that a load/restart option would be too hard, as far as my opinion goes.

And from a thread by Inca, called confederations integrated empires vassilisation (applies-to-industrial-to-space, where a nation/empire could be forced to become a protectorate of the victor of the war, so maybe that would probably what happens. Of course, it would be hard to tell what the AI would do at that stage anyway, they may just as likely destroy them, or leave them since they won't get much income from the arrangement.

I think that a colony at the very end of the war would be more likely to try to continue the past civilization, unless the approval of the conflict was low there. Over time there would be changes, considering the player would be trying to come back better and stronger than ever, regardless of the player controlling the colony or not.

A "last hope colony" sounds like a practical strategy, maybe something like a last resort plan, but probably possible without special consideration.

Sorry for not replying to this earlier. Technology can never be lost, by the very nature of the Research Web (think of Civ, where techs cant be lost). However, you could lost access to a resource required for a Tech Object (like plutonium for nuclear power), or not have any buildings capable of building the Tech Objects you desire. You could also have Tech Objects that were gifted to you or stolen from another nation that you cannot create yourself, but are capable of using. These TO's can actually be consumed to generate Research Points towards the techs they came from.

Any nation fracturing off from another nation (i.e. rebels) will always retain all the techs of the original nation. However, if a third party nation, like an invader, came and took over one of your cities, and these invaders were far less advanced (think barbarian invasions of rome) then you would have a "loss" of technology, with a less advanced nation controlling tech objects they can use but dont know how to make (but like I said they could consume them, not eat, but take them apart, to gain RP towards their techs).

Ok, so that means tech can't be lost, just temporarily blocked until you get back to the level of infrastructure to support it, yes?

What makes me think is, if a nation was so utterly decimated that they actually lose access to the tech they had, they wouldn't be able to make the advanced stuff right away, wouldn't they have to build up to it again?

In terms of fracturing off, I'm talking more about the Tech Objects the faction makes, rather than the techs it possesses.

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Plus, this may belong more on squad editor, what about making units that have a significance like belonging to a religion present in the SC, would these be recruited from Religious Specialists of that religion. (my mind sort of goes to the Druids unit in Rome Total War, support unit that gave a small boost to morale when they were chanting nearby).

EDIT: Almost forgot to add in things like the Roman Eagle that the Legions carried to being a similar idea to the one above.

And do you have any answers on hybridization?

Hybridization is a complex topic, and as for it being a game feature, it won't be included unless someone comes up with an idea to implement it (feasibly). I don't think it's worth adding into the game.

There is no such thing as religious specialists. You can check for the list of specs here: https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t1241-society-model

Even if they were present, there will not be special exceptions like special merchant warriors or special gatherer artists. If they want to fight, they train to be a soldier, if they want to trade, they live to become a merchant.

Well, that's why I pose the questions, to get answers, I just simply need to get off my lazy behind and look for some of them sometimes :lol: .

NickTheNick wrote:

Hybridization is a complex topic, and as for it being a game feature, it won't be included unless someone comes up with an idea to implement it (feasibly). I don't think it's worth adding into the game.

There is no such thing as religious specialists. You can check for the list of specs here: https://thrivegame.canadaboard.net/t1241-society-model

Even if they were present, there will not be special exceptions like special merchant warriors or special gatherer artists. If they want to fight, they train to be a soldier, if they want to trade, they live to become a merchant.

Respecting hybridization, maybe we could add a "species modifier" (like the one in spore) in the space stage (argument: ur scientifics think that genetic enginering could lead to progress, etc...), and apply it either to your own species or in non-civilized species. But adding it to the creature stage would be troublesome, just as nick says.

I just had a thought, if you go to a planet that has an environment extremely different from the normal environment, say from temperate planet to a frost planet, wouldn't Tech Objects have to be adapted to the new environment, be acclimated to the cold, or is that just making it too complicated? (sort of like a reduced efficiency/efficacy thing until it is adjusted)

While I am at it, I would like to post a microbial concept species on the concept race thread, but I don't want to get the thread locked (I strongly feel I contributed to the locking of the Implementing Underwater Civilizations thread without intending to) by the devs when that is not my intention? To heck with that, I'm posting it.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I just had a thought, if you go to a planet that has an environment extremely different from the normal environment, say from temperate planet to a frost planet, wouldn't Tech Objects have to be adapted to the new environment, be acclimated to the cold, or is that just making it too complicated? (sort of like a reduced efficiency/efficacy thing until it is adjusted)

While I am at it, I would like to post a microbial concept species on the concept race thread, but I don't want to get the thread locked (I strongly feel I contributed to the locking of the Implementing Underwater Civilizations thread without intending to) by the devs when that is not my intention?

Well thats quite realist, about getting it too far, u are here longer than me so i guess u should know how people think about it. However i dont think its too complicated (i mean no disrespect to programmers if i am wrong), i think that to work, it would be done with an "if" command related to the planet temperature, and make that below or higher than certain range, then the RoF, Dmg and/or range of the weapon its reduced (like when u make the calculations in a weapon vs armor case)

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I just had a thought, if you go to a planet that has an environment extremely different from the normal environment, say from temperate planet to a frost planet, wouldn't Tech Objects have to be adapted to the new environment, be acclimated to the cold, or is that just making it too complicated? (sort of like a reduced efficiency/efficacy thing until it is adjusted)

While I am at it, I would like to post a microbial concept species on the concept race thread, but I don't want to get the thread locked (I strongly feel I contributed to the locking of the Implementing Underwater Civilizations thread without intending to) by the devs when that is not my intention? To heck with that, I'm posting it.

Too complex. Give some examples if you want so I could explain.

NickTheNick wrote:

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I just had a thought, if you go to a planet that has an environment extremely different from the normal environment, say from temperate planet to a frost planet, wouldn't Tech Objects have to be adapted to the new environment, be acclimated to the cold, or is that just making it too complicated? (sort of like a reduced efficiency/efficacy thing until it is adjusted)

While I am at it, I would like to post a microbial concept species on the concept race thread, but I don't want to get the thread locked (I strongly feel I contributed to the locking of the Implementing Underwater Civilizations thread without intending to) by the devs when that is not my intention? To heck with that, I'm posting it.

Too complex. Give some examples if you want so I could explain.

Well i guess u could start setting the weapons stats (jaws2blood explained how in lesson 3 on his programming tutorial series) and then maybe use what i said on an earlier post on this topic.

Here's my two cents:

Robots

So, if course we can't have players coding their own robots in c++ so my idea is that, if there is a "computer chip" attached to a power source and motors, sensors, etc, then a simplified version of the behavior editor could be implemented, with sensors and motors working the same way as muscles and senses. As processors became more powerful, the modified behavior editor would eventually become just as advanced as the regular behavior editor and you could choose whether or not you want it to act "naturally" or not. Possibly, you could at this point edit them in an editor more like the organism editor instead of the tech editor. I feel like this is pretty important because, although some robots would only require a very simple editor, but robots for war and other tasks would need more advanced functions.

I think the definition of a robot in Thrive is any TO with an AI to guide it, other than that I am not sure what about it has been discussed. A behavior editor for the robot sounds like a good idea, to me at least. Wait a minute, I think robots are constructed like other Tech Objects, they can be ordered around if they are deployed like any unit. And I think they can be designed for different purposes, such as speeding up construction, or military. More sophisticated AI will lead to sentient machines (eventually) and could have a robot rebellion.

All of this is supposition on my part, so don't treat this like a definitive answer.

@Immortal

Yes, I was really suggesting a behavior editor for when AI has become very advanced, enough to emulate natural behavior. Anyways, this is a pretty long way off so... yeah.

I've been thinking, what is in the plan for how visceral combat is going to be, particularly in reference to aware stage, which will have the complex damage system.

EDIT: Would also like to ask, if I can propose an FTL travel method on the relevant thread, I don't have a knowledge of quantum physics, but I am a science nerd, I can find a way.

I'd say go for it. All space stage tech is based on what we can work mechanics out for and sci-fi anyway.

now that someone mentioned robots, have we digged about machine based ecosystems?, i mean, planets where robots survive in a natural environment, for example, a barren Mars-like planet, where robots could thrive as the only form of life apart of microbes, and they too could evolve via self replication and improvement.

I don't think that specific circumstance has been discussed, but it sounds rather easy.

Send a group of robots with sentient AIs to a barren planet like you described, tell them they are on their own, and wait and watch what happens, if they don't end up destroying each other you just might have an organic environment populated by machines.

Since it is a splintering off of your own nation, they have access to the same techs you do, but instead of having to worry about organics, they won't need things like food or even atmosphere.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I don't think that specific circumstance has been discussed, but it sounds rather easy.

Send a group of robots with sentient AIs to a barren planet like you described, tell them they are on their own, and wait and watch what happens, if they don't end up destroying each other you just might have an organic environment populated by machines.

Since it is a splintering off of your own nation, they have access to the same techs you do, but instead of having to worry about organics, they won't need things like food or even atmosphere.

tell them? no, they should learn by themselves, im talking about for example, seeding a barren planet with small, self replicating machines, they have the intelligente of a microbe, but they have self improvement printed in its code. they should then start a natural evolution line.

this isnt just letting some robots in a planet and telling them, "hey, we're gonna leave you all here, go forth an create your own civilization".

about resources, well, robots would crave for things like compounds for repairs and energy, for example, a robot could evolve to be a plant-like thing, developing solar panels and using it to store energy in a batterie, other robots would feed from that one, sapping energy using extensions that can get to the battery without damagin the energy-robot.

then there could be a robot that develops predatory behaviors and starts killing other robots in order to sap energy from them.

eventually there would evolve a robot with enough understanding of its environment to get on aware.

Ok, thanks for clarifying, that might be possible with enough advancement in AI and nanotechnology, if that is going to be possible.

EDIT: I know this is something possibly being implemented much later in the game, but with Earth, what species are going to be represented there? Especially with when Earth is found, the approach I read was that it would start at the evolution of Humans and continue from there.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

EDIT: I know this is something possibly being implemented much later in the game, but with Earth, what species are going to be represented there? Especially with when Earth is found, the approach I read was that it would start at the evolution of Humans and continue from there.

To be honest, at the moment, I don't think anyone really cares. It's such a minor detail and is only an Easter Egg.