Extended Research List

Commander Keen wrote:

2creator wrote:

How about (like Alaska said) to not use it as a research but simply as a game mechanic that is unlocked by Latitude and Longitude. E.g. You have a cannon and are sieging a castle. Because you do not have line of sight, the castles exact location is clouded and black. If you have unlocked cartography (or whatever it's called), you know where the castle is even if you do not have line of sight.

The problem here is that Cartography is much simpler (and thus researched way earlier) than Indirect fire.

I don't see a problem with researching it, as it was done this way here on Earth.

If it really is just a set of mathematical stuff, should we just have physics unlock the ability to select to fire into fog-of-war sections?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

If it really is just a set of mathematical stuff, should we just have physics unlock the ability to select to fire into fog-of-war sections?

Physics seems to be a bit too early. I think it should be somewhere between Explosives and Semiauto Weapons (ideal spot on the tree is around Thermodynamics). Also, it should allow to fire above any obstacles on the way to target instead of firing directly at the target, regardless if there is or isn't fog over the target.

Commander Keen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

If it really is just a set of mathematical stuff, should we just have physics unlock the ability to select to fire into fog-of-war sections?

Physics seems to be a bit too early. I think it should be somewhere between Explosives and Semiauto Weapons (ideal spot on the tree is around Thermodynamics). Also, it should allow to fire above any obstacles on the way to target instead of firing directly at the target, regardless if there is or isn't fog over the target.

Okay, so maybe what we need to do is discuss the actual mechanic of artillery. How will the player choose to attack people he can't see?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Okay, so maybe what we need to do is discuss the actual mechanic of artillery. How will the player choose to attack people he can't see?

Well, we could do it Sudden Strike style: just have a "fire on location" command that can be issued everywhere, even into fog of war. If issued an attack order (both "attack unit" and "attack ground"), the artillery will try to aim at the target either directly, or, if not possible and have indirect fire, try to use alternate solution (indirect fire).

Commander Keen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Okay, so maybe what we need to do is discuss the actual mechanic of artillery. How will the player choose to attack people he can't see?

Well, we could do it Sudden Strike style: just have a "fire on location" command that can be issued everywhere, even into fog of war. If issued an attack order (both "attack unit" and "attack ground"), the artillery will try to aim at the target either directly, or, if not possible and have indirect fire, try to use alternate solution (indirect fire).

So this research would unlock the ability to target areas as opposed to TOs and units?

Okay, so, clothing researches.

We need to show the changes from hand-weaving, to hand-woom, to mechanical woom, to industrial woom.

We also need to show a few other bits like buttons, lace (Driving force of Napoleonic France's economy), and the evolution of simple forms to complex forms.

Tenebrarum wrote:

Okay, so, clothing researches.

We need to show the changes from hand-weaving, to hand-woom, to mechanical woom, to industrial woom.

We also need to show a few other bits like buttons, lace (Driving force of Napoleonic France's economy), and the evolution of simple forms to complex forms.

Rex, i think this is yours and the Calligrapher's area. I'm going to be no help here whatsoever.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Rex, i think this is yours and the Calligrapher's area. I'm going to be no help here whatsoever.

Oh yes you are. You know a hell of a lot more about this than you think you do. Everyone does.

Now we could go with leveling for the weaving improvements, but they're so spaced out that you can't really do that. I think we'll have to make new researches.

Also: Bashi? Is buttons as a concept viable?

From a quick read on this thread I see we are still discussing around components of the "realistic" part of the tech tree (begining up to now). I wonder how much of a challenge will it be thinking about the alternate realities that could exist and make the tech tree absorb such thing. Having to think outside of the box when it comes to real technological evolution seems to be quite a challenge to me.

Djohaal wrote:

From a quick read on this thread I see we are still discussing around components of the "realistic" part of the tech tree (begining up to now). I wonder how much of a challenge will it be thinking about the alternate realities that could exist and make the tech tree absorb such thing. Having to think outside of the box when it comes to real technological evolution seems to be quite a challenge to me.

Right now we're just trying to do a psuedo-terran style tech tree. Once that's done, we can begin expanding outwards.

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Rex, i think this is yours and the Calligrapher's area. I'm going to be no help here whatsoever.

Oh yes you are. You know a hell of a lot more about this than you think you do. Everyone does.

Now we could go with leveling for the weaving improvements, but they're so spaced out that you can't really do that. I think we'll have to make new researches.

Also: Bashi? Is buttons as a concept viable?

Well i have little to say here, because like i said i don't know much in relation to this.

But i will say that you may need to pm Bashi for him to see your question.

I'm a bit confused about levelling... Does using a tech a lot make progress towards levelling it, through experience of use, or are we just having a big red 'level up' button?

The Uteen wrote:

I'm a bit confused about levelling... Does using a tech a lot make progress towards levelling it, through experience of use, or are we just having a big red 'level up' button?

Both is some sense. Using the tech awards research points to it, but enough to develop the technology significantly, only a few levels. The leveling up can also be done by continuing to research the topic (after researching, it will not disappear), and it's the only way to get up levels effectively.

Rex, I think we'll be safe sticking lace in as a fabric which is a "status symbol" as it's expensive until it gets easy to produce (commercially/mechanically available.) For cloth, I think the cost should go down as research/tech increases, rather than having leveling. We could tie lace into that when it becomes mechanized.

I dunno what bashi would do about buttons - I'm assuming you're talking somewhat functional buttons, rather than just a bit designated as a button put on for show. I'm assuming that functional fasteners will be a pain in his belgium.

Ok, fire point conceeded - i know nothing of the physics, though I do know that vents are hot enough to use in chemical reactions which use lower temperatures, even if they can't melt stronger metals such as iron or bronze. Just pointing out that lack of fire should still allow for some chemistry. (The fact that they'd need to make containers of some kind or risk whatever they were developing spreading across the ocean is probably a bigger limit.)

Edit: Okay, anything employing knotting methods rather than weaving ones would be potentially more expensive, but going into too much detail about construction method's going to drive the lot of us crazy. We could just be deliberately vague and have a category for labor-intensive fabrics (silk, lace, anything else we can think of,) and as there's no guarantee that the same types of fibers or methods of arrangement would be available, we can hook them all into the decreasing cost of cloth (though not immediately) and have a more highly ornamental society have more options of randomly generated cost to choose from.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Rex, I think we'll be safe sticking lace in as a fabric which is a "status symbol" as it's expensive until it gets easy to produce (commercially/mechanically available.) For cloth, I think the cost should go down as research/tech increases, rather than having leveling. We could tie lace into that when it becomes mechanized.

I like it. However, I'm thinking about starting a thread about economic status and such. Let's keep things fluid here.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

I dunno what bashi would do about buttons - I'm assuming you're talking somewhat functional buttons, rather than just a bit designated as a button put on for show. I'm assuming that functional fasteners will be a pain in his belgium.

I don't mean fastening so much as having the tightness of clothing limited until buttons pop up. However the areas are a bit specific on humans and it might be difficult to get the game to figure out where they'd be nessicary. Could someone check with him to see if that's possible? I tried PMing him and it bounced.

Consider it done, Rex.

Mysterious_Calligrapher wrote:

Consider it done, Rex.

A week later, I'll assume there was no response.

In any case, I think we're safe to continue with the tech tree. Next batch of researches plox! Also, don't worry about editing them yourself before you add them Alaska(As you seem to usually do), so long as you get them up, we can mark the nessicary changes.

Tenebrarum wrote:

In any case, I think we're safe to continue with the tech tree. Next batch of researches plox! Also, don't worry about editing them yourself before you add them Alaska(As you seem to usually do), so long as you get them up, we can mark the nessicary changes.

Seconding!

I'll get it at least partially done sometime tomorrow, in between shopping for Gift Day presents. And i have to make changes, as a lot of the Civ stuff is just not relevant. But i'll just go faster than i normally do.

I think you guys went a little too in-depth with clothing- It is important, but don't be surprised if what you laid down gets chopped up a lot.

~sciocont wrote:

I think you guys went a little too in-depth with clothing- It is important, but don't be surprised if what you laid down gets chopped up a lot.

Of course! And then it will get added later, as optional. That's the glory of this project, you put down almost literally everything, everyone else trims it to the nessicary sive (With your supervision), and then you can sit happy with the knowledge that it will added later on as optional. ^^

P.S. Don't hurt yourself Alaska.

However important clothing is, it's not the point of this thread. Please discuss it elsewhere. [/admin]

And yeah Alaska, while it would be nice to have it asap, it's not important. Always have your life and hobbies on the first place.

Commander Keen wrote:

However important clothing is, it's not the point of this thread. Please discuss it elsewhere. [/admin]

And yeah Alaska, while it would be nice to have it asap, it's not important. Always have your life and hobbies on the first place.

Silly, this is my hobby. But unfortunately, only a little done today. My head just wasn't in it. Keep posted, though, i'll get there soon.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Silly, this is my hobby.

And I thought I'm the only one that loves developing the research tree..

Commander Keen wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Silly, this is my hobby.

And I thought I'm the only one that loves developing the research tree..

Geeks. Get a life and obsess over editors like I do.