Extended Research List

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Lukas99 wrote:

I have a couple things to say. First, while fire is very imporant, it's not completely nessecary. Fire is the fist step in chemistry, it teaches us that an action has a reaction; in this case friction=fire. But, something else could easily take fires place, such as to chemicals that, when mixed together, glow. I think this would be the case in an aquatic civilization tree.
Second Flying creatures wouldn't invent the wheel. It would be unnecessary for them, they would always be able to fly faster. The might invent a light weight carry device that multiple beings would fly with, to carry goods.
Third, well while typing first and second I forgot what this was supposed to be.

Without fire, you cannot have any metal-working technologies. Without fire, your species will always be stuck in the Stone Age (at least physically, their society might be modern or even ultramodern).

Ah, I see were limiting choices to a semi-human way of thinking. Not completely scientificly accurate, but good for fgameplay and progammers, and thats what we want.

How can melting metal without heat be scientifically accurate?

Lukas99 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Without fire, you cannot have any metal-working technologies. Without fire, your species will always be stuck in the Stone Age (at least physically, their society might be modern or even ultramodern).

Ah, I see were limiting choices to a semi-human way of thinking. Not completely scientificly accurate, but good for fgameplay and progammers, and thats what we want.

Scientifically, there is no other way to melt metals. If you have a way, please share.

Telepathically

Realistically,

Induction

Induction would require:

AC current,
Wires, (However that may require metalworking in and of itself)

But then again, they may not know metal melts until they know about fire.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Lukas99 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Without fire, you cannot have any metal-working technologies. Without fire, your species will always be stuck in the Stone Age (at least physically, their society might be modern or even ultramodern).

Ah, I see were limiting choices to a semi-human way of thinking. Not completely scientificly accurate, but good for fgameplay and progammers, and thats what we want.

Scientifically, there is no other way to melt metals. If you have a way, please share.

While that is true, scientifically you don't need metals, they could simply develop a diffrent way to make tools. Or not even tools, tell me what does a ant need a spear for? Nothing, it can simply out number its prey. Dolphins are considered to be on of the smartest animals on the planet,some people think they might even be smarter than humans, but they need no tools. This is because they developed differently than humans. Just think all these examples come from are planet, now imagine a completetly diffrent planet. It would be so astoundingly odd and different who know what would happen there.

Lukas99 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Lukas99 wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Without fire, you cannot have any metal-working technologies. Without fire, your species will always be stuck in the Stone Age (at least physically, their society might be modern or even ultramodern).

Ah, I see were limiting choices to a semi-human way of thinking. Not completely scientificly accurate, but good for fgameplay and progammers, and thats what we want.

Scientifically, there is no other way to melt metals. If you have a way, please share.

While that is true, scientifically you don't need metals, they could simply develop a diffrent way to make tools. Or not even tools, tell me what does a ant need a spear for? Nothing, it can simply out number its prey. Dolphins are considered to be on of the smartest animals on the planet,some people think they might even be smarter than humans, but they need no tools. This is because they developed differently than humans. Just think all these examples come from are planet, now imagine a completetly diffrent planet. It would be so astoundingly odd and different who know what would happen there.

Maybe you don't understand. This research tree is for sapient species that are progressing through stages of civilisation. While dolphins, wolves and octopuses may be intelligent, they have not created a civilisation. Therefore their journey is not what we are looking for in a research tree. Humans on the other hand, have made thousands of civilisations across time and the planet. Therefore they are the single best species to try to replicate.

Let me reiterate that nowhere in the game will it force you to move up stages in your species' development. Whether or not you create a civilisation is completely up to you, the player.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

Let me reiterate that nowhere in the game will it force you to move up stages in your species' development. Whether or not you create a civilisation is completely up to you, the player.

I think that's my favorite part.

Some research ideas:


Plasma:
Tech tools:
Plasma Rifles
Plasma Turrets

Laser:
Tech Tools:
Laser Rifle
Laser Turrets


Something like that

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Leather and hides can be used to sail.

Also, herbavores cannot become sapient/sentient as defined on Earth. Besides, we aren't deviding critters into catagories as arbitrary as that, are we?

PS: Wheather Lore should require calendars.

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

InvaderZim wrote:

Why does sailing require fishing or weaving? They can row their boats, and they don't have to fish while they're at sea.

Sailing as in sails? You can't sail with oars. Cloth is needed, and weaving allows cloth to be made into clothes, etc. Sailing is a logical progression of fishing. Why else would you be at sea? Although i can understand that it would be hard for an herbivorous species to get to sailing if it requires fishing... Maybe an herbivorous path is needed to get to sailing? Suggestions for this would be welcome.

Leather and hides can be used to sail.

Also, herbavores cannot become sapient/sentient as defined on Earth. Besides, we aren't deviding critters into catagories as arbitrary as that, are we?

PS: Wheather Lore should require calendars.

A good point, i'll change sailing to need weaving or hunting.

If that's true, it would really make the Research Tree easier. And what do you mean dividing into categories? It's simply a matter of the creature eating meat or not. And if there is an omnivorous creature that doesn't eat fish but can eat seaweed, then they would still need waterbound collecting rather than fishing.

I thought about this. And i think i agree with you, it makes sense that a better understanding of seasons would lead to a better understanding of the weather. Willfix.

EDIT: NEW VERSION OF THE RESEARCH LIST IS UP. SEE ORIGINAL POST FOR LINK AND DETAILS. FEEDBACK IS WANTED, AND I HAVE TRIED TO MAKE NOTES ON THE PDF AS TO WHAT AREAS I NEED HELP IN.

phisics could give a better lab; economics would create more productivity and wealth, but with random fails

zotobom wrote:

Some research ideas:


Plasma:
Tech tools:
Plasma Rifles
Plasma Turrets

Laser:
Tech Tools:
Laser Rifle
Laser Turrets


Something like that

And you can go on and on with those lists. BTW,there is a big [b]serious[/]b problem with this tech tree. Its the same as Civ 4 only with other requirements. Wouldnt they sue us then?

Quote :

phisics could give a better lab; economics would create more productivity and wealth, but with random fails

By "a better lab", I assume you mean a science output boost. Also, why would "random fails" be only after economics (or why would the by at all)?

Quote :

Plasma:
Tech tools:
Plasma Rifles
Plasma Turrets

Laser:
Tech Tools:
Laser Rifle
Laser Turrets

Plasma weapons would go under Particle manipulation research on a high level, laser guns would go under Photonics under a high level too.

Quote :

And you can go on and on with those lists. BTW,there is a big [b]serious[b/] problem with this tech tree. Its the same as Civ 4 only with other requirements. Wouldnt they sue us then?

I doubt they would. And anytime, we can rename those techs to anything we want.

economic breakdowns, same thing for stock market and finances (if there is that research) ex: 1929,2008; and a better lab is more science output and the capacity to make new materials and faster

eumesmo wrote:

economic breakdowns, same thing for stock market and finances (if there is that research) ex: 1929,2008

I know you have meant economic crisis, but why would they be random? That's like including a gun with a random chance to jam into Quake.

US_of_Alaska wrote:

If that's true, it would really make the Research Tree easier. And what do you mean dividing into categories? It's simply a matter of the creature eating meat or not. And if there is an omnivorous creature that doesn't eat fish but can eat seaweed, then they would still need waterbound collecting rather than fishing.

I mean the catagories of plants vs. animals. These definitions are arbitrary.

Tenebrarum wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

If that's true, it would really make the Research Tree easier. And what do you mean dividing into categories? It's simply a matter of the creature eating meat or not. And if there is an omnivorous creature that doesn't eat fish but can eat seaweed, then they would still need waterbound collecting rather than fishing.

I mean the catagories of plants vs. animals. These definitions are arbitrary.

Oh. Yeah, good point. But i still think that having a research called "Fishing" is too terracentric and restrictive, no?

@zotobom: Actually, there are researches from the original Civ IV tech tree because this whole research list is based upon a modmod of that exact game (i did mention it in the OP, didn't i?). But because it's a modmod, Firaxis can't sue. If we used their entire tree with the exact same effects, maybe. But we're so far from that that they could only claim we took inspiration from them. Which can never be illegal. And will you stop trying to force your ultramodern research ideas onto the list when i have clearly stated that i am up to the pre-Industrial Era?

@eumesmo: Your idea to give a better lab is pretty much covered in the +Science effect, like Keen said. As for economics, we can't simply say that it generates wealth. Maybe it would result in more wealth from trade routes?

Industrial era.....hmmm.....maybe a Co2 research thingy? That reduces all co2 from the factorys so the citizens will be happier and it would be less hot on the planet?

zotobom wrote:

Industrial era.....hmmm.....maybe a Co2 research thingy? That reduces all co2 from the factorys so the citizens will be happier and it would be less hot on the planet?

Um... What?

US_of_Alaska wrote:

zotobom wrote:

Industrial era.....hmmm.....maybe a Co2 research thingy? That reduces all co2 from the factorys so the citizens will be happier and it would be less hot on the planet?

Um... What?

An research that decreases the co2/carbon oxide production of factory's. Effect :Less hot on planet and citizens are happier.

zotobom wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

zotobom wrote:

Industrial era.....hmmm.....maybe a Co2 research thingy? That reduces all co2 from the factorys so the citizens will be happier and it would be less hot on the planet?

Um... What?

An research that decreases the co2/carbon oxide production of factory's. Effect :Less hot on planet and citizens are happier.

Basicly he's suggesting a tech that will decrease the amount of waste caused by industrial buildings, either solid, liquid or gas waste. Not just CO² since the organisms might breath a different gas. Am I right Zobotom?

Anyway I'd rather not have this option because : 1) It's sporish to me, 2) kind of unrealistic and 3) makes the game easier. If you want less waste then you'll just have to either find somewhere to dump it all or find a way to recycle or use it.

zotobom wrote:

US_of_Alaska wrote:

zotobom wrote:

Industrial era.....hmmm.....maybe a Co2 research thingy? That reduces all co2 from the factorys so the citizens will be happier and it would be less hot on the planet?

Um... What?

An research that decreases the co2/carbon oxide production of factory's. Effect :Less hot on planet and citizens are happier.

Will researching all researches be necessary for anything? Because depending on how your creature evolved some may not be necessary. Like for this tech, what if your species uses thermosynthesis? They will not be bothered by it, getting the tech would surely decrease happiness.

Another problem is fire. One of the most basic techs, yet surely not needed for organisms that can release a flammable gas and ignite it, in short: breathe fire. They already can use fire, why research it? Level the tech, yes, but the basic research should not be necessary.

Maybe I just shouldn't point out flaws like this that would be a pain to solve... There are inevitably too many.

Well if they don't need to reserch that specific technology (like firebreathing) then I think that the species should already have the "fire tech" since they already aquired it. But if they evolved to not breath fire anymore, then they will have to research it even if they have reserched a lot of technology allready. (this is just an example)

Albalrogue wrote:

Well if they don't need to reserch that specific technology (like firebreathing) then I think that the species should already have the "fire tech" since they already aquired it. But if they evolved to not breath fire anymore, then they will have to research it even if they have reserched a lot of technology allready. (this is just an example)

Hard to think of every possibility, hard to code the game to spot it... This is one of those small, nasty complications of the game...

What the Belgium? I'm sure I have already posted here today.


Zotobom's idea could be included in Ecology research. And that will be needed, you know. The only problem is that he is suggesting it for pre-industrial age, but at that time there isn't anything to worry about.

Commander Keen wrote:

What the Belgium? I'm sure I have already posted here today.

Zotobom's idea could be included in Ecology research. And that will be needed, you know. The only problem is that he is suggesting it for pre-industrial age, but at that time there isn't anything to worry about.

So you're just talking about making factories more efficient and less pollutive? That make sense.

Everyone, please read the newest version of the research list. There are many problems i need help with.