Sandbox Challenges

Given that the player has access to all god tools in the sandbox, I suggest that we implement game-creation tools in it. Basically, I think players should be able to set up "scenarios" in the sandbox and control how they can possibly be played. In this way, someone could set up a planet with all their own content and plop the player into it at a certain point, with certain restrictions on gameplay, such as pre-determined tech advancement, RTS mode only, etc. We wouldn't have to do much work, just provide the player with the right interface and tools to craft their own challenges for other players. Each one of these challenges gets saved as a "sandbox" file type.

Discuss.

Okay. Knowing how to make these will depend on our handy list of god tools, however. This could also be a place where our shared conent is made... sculpt your world, its inhabitants etc.
(Personally? I'd be in here all the time. My other computer games might suffer as a result.)

We're going to need a lot of toggles in order to set the scenarios - say we have two sentient species that need the same resources.
We'd need a toggle that
a) restricted the mode to strategy/rts
b) stated which resource they were using

Obviously, we'd need different toggles for different scenarios. Also, we have some sort of built-in resource cost/availability depending on the resource's acessability value, it's usefullness, and its rarity floating around strategy mode, right?
We also need a toggle to set that. See, we've got the god tools, but these kinds of things - availability, mode selector - don't necessarily fall under the heading of "god tools" given as they'd be pretty boring out of scenario-building sandbox mode.

I think thw first thing we need to do is think forward to what people will try to make. People will try to make:
an FPS
adventure game
chess
other board games
mario/classic cames

with that list, we can decide what tools they will need. Let's start off with chess. For chess:
-restricted to strategy mode
-restricted unit movement patterns
-rules (castling, en passant, one move per turn, etc)-let the player program them.
-target (target would be the other king, if you kill the other king, you win)
-AI (let the player program their own in the NE, each side would be a faction)

For an platformer/FPS/adventure game:
-restricted to org play
-triggers (not on the guns, I'm talking about one action will trigger another action to happen [keypad opens door])
-power ups (could be done w/ god tools)
-cutscenes

So it's not really that hard at all to let people make their own games.

Making the planet is god tools only, no problem there.

Restricting resources could be done by just making those resources and no others on the planet, and you can also place as much as you want there to be, so again, no problem.

The current state of the race is fairly easy, just get them to a certain point, maybe keep them in line with god tools, and save.

The technology advancement... A god tool could limit the amount a race advances, or allow them to advance faster than normal.

Making the player be a certain organism is simple, go into organism mode and save.


So most could be covered by normal god tools, but 'game-creation tools' would be handy for the restrictions of modes. Not sure what other game-creation tools there could be, though.
Those tools would probably be Sandbox only, they wouldn't really work outside of Sandbox, but Sandbox begins with no tools, so therefore they should be unlock inside Sandbox.
So, if they are unlocked inside Sandbox, then how? Achievements!

Play through a stage in either organism or strategy mode with no switching to unlock the mode restriction tool.

And... I really can't think of any other tools, but there probably will be more.

I hink the full toolset should be available from the start in sandbox.

~sciocont wrote:

I think thw first thing we need to do is think forward to what people will try to make. People will try to make:
an FPS
adventure game
chess
other board games
mario/classic cames

with that list, we can decide what tools they will need. Let's start off with chess. For chess:
-restricted to strategy mode
-restricted unit movement patterns
-rules (castling, en passant, one move per turn, etc)-let the player program them.
-target (target would be the other king, if you kill the other king, you win)
-AI (let the player program their own in the NE, each side would be a faction)

For an platformer/FPS/adventure game:
-restricted to org play
-triggers (not on the guns, I'm talking about one action will trigger another action to happen [keypad opens door])
-power ups (could be done w/ god tools)
-cutscenes

So it's not really that hard at all to let people make their own games.

I knew there would be other tools! So here's some quick ideas for achievements :

Restricted unit movement could be unlocked by repetitive movement in a certain way.
The tool would let you draw out a type of movement, or multiple ways, with optional grid-snapping.

Rules could be invention of law by a civilisation in Sandbox. Making this will probably be complicated, though...

Target by attacking one species/nation without attacking any other about 10 times in a row.

AI is obvious. Create sentient computers!

Cutscenes... Zoom full in, zoom full out, and rotate 360 degrees at least once in any mode in Sandbox.

Power ups - use at least 50% of all god tools in organism mode.

Triggers - place a TO with a switch in Sandbox.

~sciocont wrote:

I hink the full toolset should be available from the start in sandbox.

Another post made... Um...
...
Hm.

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

I hink the full toolset should be available from the start in sandbox.

Another post made... Um...
...
Hm.

Here's my reasoning: When i played roller coaster tycoon, the only thing I ever went and did with it was play in the samdbox. Despite the awesomeness of the rest of Thrive, if we include a sandbox, some people will only use that. I think everything they need to build in the Sandbox should be available immediately, because Sandbox is not a game, it's a creation tool.

~sciocont wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

I hink the full toolset should be available from the start in sandbox.

Another post made... Um...
...
Hm.

Here's my reasoning: When i played roller coaster tycoon, the only thing I ever went and did with it was play in the samdbox. Despite the awesomeness of the rest of Thrive, if we include a sandbox, some people will only use that. I think everything they need to build in the Sandbox should be available immediately, because Sandbox is not a game, it's a creation tool.

Wow, I just did the Sandbox too.

Anyway, I suppose they could be available from the start, but every god tool free with ascension seems a bit extreme. A set of tools for Sandbox (which comes with ascension anyway) seems like it would be okay. But the tools should be unlocked in the game first, or people wouldn't need to put the effort in to get them. That's the reason I only used Sandbox in RCT (I think...) - you just didn't need to use the main game, there was no point. We need to make the main game important, because the Sandbox shouldn't replace the game. (or at least until the main game is completed)

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

The Uteen wrote:

~sciocont wrote:

I hink the full toolset should be available from the start in sandbox.

Another post made... Um...
...
Hm.

Here's my reasoning: When i played roller coaster tycoon, the only thing I ever went and did with it was play in the samdbox. Despite the awesomeness of the rest of Thrive, if we include a sandbox, some people will only use that. I think everything they need to build in the Sandbox should be available immediately, because Sandbox is not a game, it's a creation tool.

Wow, I just did the Sandbox too.

Anyway, I suppose they could be available from the start, but every god tool free with ascension seems a bit extreme. A set of tools for Sandbox (which comes with ascension anyway) seems like it would be okay. But the tools should be unlocked in the game first, or people wouldn't need to put the effort in to get them. That's the reason I only used Sandbox in RCT (I think...) - you just didn't need to use the main game, there was no point. We need to make the main game important, because the Sandbox shouldn't replace the game. (or at least until the main game is completed)

i see what you're saying. Do you think we should set up a poll here? Maybe a poll on ModDB?

At first with the release, we should really only allow to create realistic scenarios, with scripting patched in.

Commander Keen wrote:

At first with the release, we should really only allow to create realistic scenarios, with scripting patched in.

Realistic scenarios? You mean scenarios made without the game-maker tools?

And I'm not sure how to make a poll on ModDB, if anyone knows how, then go ahead... I'll make a poll here, though.

Realistic scenarios, as just putting organisms/TOs/nations, giving them orders and being finished. Scripting (for things like chess) would be patched in later.

Commander Keen wrote:

Realistic scenarios, as just putting organisms/TOs/nations, giving them orders and being finished. Scripting (for things like chess) would be patched in later.

Ah.. Yes, then. But as selecting the player's organism is required and some sort of target/destination (Simple ways to win the game) is needed, those should be included in the first release.

Oh, and a way to select the total % damage before game over would be handy, but that wouldn't be a tool.
That should probably be included as a right-click option for the selected player's organism.

And complicated things, like patrols and Spore-like speech-at-certain-point-in-game, could all be done in the AI editor. Just throw away all intelligence and instincts and stick in whatever is needed for the game.

Speaking of Spore-like speech, we couldn't do this with the current speech idea, which is communication of 'ideas', not words. We could have a tool for that.

My two cents: God tools unlocked from the start, the custom game modes a must and the simple feeling of pure power. Universe in a box. There should be no unlocking of tools. This has the potential to be the best mod system/machinima making utility in a game EVER!! Also, should be compatible with observer mode.

Compatability with observer mode - check
As far as I know, once you have sanbox, you have it all. Playing outside sandbox still has unlockables, but upon entering sandbox... it's sandbox.

There is a poll thread on this subject, God tool availability in Sandbox, use that thread for discussing availability of god tools in Sandbox, not this one.

Oh, and the poll's always open. You can still vote/change your mind if you want.

And this is why we have team leads.