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 From a Colony of Cells to an Organism

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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:15 am

Title says it all.

This is basically my Early Multicellular concept thread :]

RedStar's Microbe stage Concept
(Bolded are parts I've added and need to be worked on)
Spoiler:
 

My rough concept of early Multicellular stage:
Spoiler:
 

So. Its not finished. There is much to think about, to add, to erase or to develop.

~Things to Discuss~

~AUTO EVO - Is it possible with this concept. How?

~Multicellular structures and specialized cells for:
~Thermosynthetics Colonies
~Photosynthetics Colonies
~Respiratory Colonies

~Assimilation of other cells in Microbial stage and their effect on Multicellular colonies.

~Any ideas here you like or do not like.

~Reproduction of individual cells and entire colonies

Ta


Last edited by Pezzalis on Mon Mar 14, 2011 7:43 am; edited 2 times in total
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andry796
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 10:37 am

mmmmm...
Sorry but I don't like the absorb-and-get-skills system, no way.
I think that "skills" should be given by the auto-evo (however we are still discussing on how auto evo will work).

But I have a question: why has the visual to be 2d in cell mode? I don't think in real life cells move only right, left, front, back!

In my opinion the hardest thing in this discussion would be choose how the cell-multicell transition will look like.
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The Uteen
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:15 am

Wow, I hadn't noticed that second concept before, it's good.

But colonies of cells, and the ability to... Send cells away from the colony, I think? As well as the different kind of 3rd dimensional navigation, well, that sounds like another stage of gameplay! That's not a bad thing, it's allows continuous flow between cell and multi-cellular (which may need renaming if this becomes and official 'stage'), which I like the sound of.

@andry: I suppose cell could be 3D, it could work sort of like the current smell sense concept... In fact, we could make it exactly the same (replacing the smell description and smell code) and it would work fine. Maybe we could change the smell clouds, and make them more watery/fluid, to keep the senses different.

hang on, for anyone confused about the above paragraph, the current idea for cell's 'senses' (I think) is that cells send out chemicals and can identify other cells with them... Or something like that. The cells will not have eyes!
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kaosrain
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:55 am

¿How exactly do you "absorb" other cells?
i think we should start drawing concepts of the extra basic cells

¿Also the other cells evolve by absorbing too, right?
...¡¡¡Colony stage!!!!


Last edited by kaosrain on Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:25 pm

andry796 wrote:
mmmmm...
Sorry but I don't like the absorb-and-get-skills system, no way.
I think that "skills" should be given by the auto-evo (however we are still discussing on how auto evo will work).

I actually like the eat and get skill
IT s kind of like in spore when you ate more plants than meat you became a herbivore
so if you eat mainly light eaters you become a light eater

(PS. i don't think were doing auto-evolve yet)
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andry796
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:41 pm

specialk2121 wrote:
andry796 wrote:
mmmmm...
Sorry but I don't like the absorb-and-get-skills system, no way.
I think that "skills" should be given by the auto-evo (however we are still discussing on how auto evo will work).

I actually like the eat and get skill
IT s kind of like in spore when you ate more plants than meat you became a herbivore
so if you eat mainly light eaters you become a light eater

(PS. i don't think were doing auto-evolve yet)

We aren't going to make it like spore...
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specialk2121
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:45 pm

andry796 wrote:

We aren't going to make it like spore...

I know were arnt
but i think that is a good comparison to what this
( it s at least what it reminded me of)
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:32 pm

andry796 wrote:
mmmmm...
Sorry but I don't like the absorb-and-get-skills system, no way.
I think that "skills" should be given by the auto-evo (however we are still discussing on how auto evo will work).

As crazy as it sounds this is actually based of the endosymbiotic theory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endosymbiotic_theory

Note that this kind of assimilation will only work in single cells and will not be possible once you are multicellular.

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Darkgamma
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:01 pm

andry796 wrote:

In my opinion the hardest thing in this discussion would be choose how the cell-multicell transition will look like.

There's this single-celled real-life thing, think it's called Paramecium, that has one cell and two cellular nexii (think that's what they're called), and it has properties of both unicellular and dicellular beings, tho it has one cell.
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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sat Dec 25, 2010 7:07 pm

Darkgamma wrote:
andry796 wrote:

In my opinion the hardest thing in this discussion would be choose how the cell-multicell transition will look like.

There's this single-celled real-life thing, think it's called Paramecium, that has one cell and two cellular nexii (think that's what they're called), and it has properties of both unicellular and dicellular beings, tho it has one cell.

Don't think its paramecium they are typically unicellular...
I don't think the transition from cellular to multicellular would be difficult... Its more or less controlling two or more cells instead of one...

I Think the hardest part is going from seemingly 2D multicellular as a large colony to a fully 3D Organism...

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Xenopologist
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:09 pm

Pezzalis wrote:
Don't think its paramecium they are typically unicellular...
I don't think the transition from cellular to multicellular would be difficult... Its more or less controlling two or more cells instead of one...

I Think the hardest part is going from seemingly 2D multicellular as a large colony to a fully 3D Organism...


I still dislike the idea of this being a sharp stage division; every other transition except this one seems to "flow" quite well. Perhaps there could be some sort of gradual shift in perspective from a plane -> a point where the player can begin traveling between layers of 2D space -> 3D space of Multicellular.
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~sciocont
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sat Dec 25, 2010 10:54 pm

Xenopologist wrote:
Pezzalis wrote:
Don't think its paramecium they are typically unicellular...
I don't think the transition from cellular to multicellular would be difficult... Its more or less controlling two or more cells instead of one...

I Think the hardest part is going from seemingly 2D multicellular as a large colony to a fully 3D Organism...


I still dislike the idea of this being a sharp stage division; every other transition except this one seems to "flow" quite well. Perhaps there could be some sort of gradual shift in perspective from a plane -> a point where the player can begin traveling between layers of 2D space -> 3D space of Multicellular.
QFT- we need a good smooth transition.

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Pezzalis
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:44 am

~sciocont wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
Pezzalis wrote:
Don't think its paramecium they are typically unicellular...
I don't think the transition from cellular to multicellular would be difficult... Its more or less controlling two or more cells instead of one...

I Think the hardest part is going from seemingly 2D multicellular as a large colony to a fully 3D Organism...


I still dislike the idea of this being a sharp stage division; every other transition except this one seems to "flow" quite well. Perhaps there could be some sort of gradual shift in perspective from a plane -> a point where the player can begin traveling between layers of 2D space -> 3D space of Multicellular.
QFT- we need a good smooth transition.

Wait so is it the transition of

A) Single celled --> Multicellular

OR

B) Multicellular 2D --> 3D

If (A) I guess it could begin with more cells of your species flocking together and eventually bonding to one another.

If (B) I guess it could begin at a given colony size that you can dive up and down the Z Axis but this will be restricted due to pressures and light levels etc, then later on you can dive much more freely and now it will be more or less full 3D except the camera will be locked at the top down view.

How it will then smoothly go to a fully 3D rotatable camera... I am at a loss.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sun Dec 26, 2010 7:07 am

Pezzalis wrote:
If (B) I guess it could begin at a given colony size that you can dive up and down the Z Axis but this will be restricted due to pressures and light levels etc, then later on you can dive much more freely and now it will be more or less full 3D except the camera will be locked at the top down view.

How it will then smoothly go to a fully 3D rotatable camera... I am at a loss.

This is the same problem as with Strategy mode. We might aswell enable 3d camera from the beginning and make it useless (with a lot of blue fog or something). Then later on in multicellular, we might give the player a hint that the 3d camera is no longer as useless as it was before.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sun Dec 26, 2010 12:38 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Pezzalis wrote:
If (B) I guess it could begin at a given colony size that you can dive up and down the Z Axis but this will be restricted due to pressures and light levels etc, then later on you can dive much more freely and now it will be more or less full 3D except the camera will be locked at the top down view.

How it will then smoothly go to a fully 3D rotatable camera... I am at a loss.

This is the same problem as with Strategy mode. We might aswell enable 3d camera from the beginning and make it useless (with a lot of blue fog or something). Then later on in multicellular, we might give the player a hint that the 3d camera is no longer as useless as it was before.

A hint? A dialogue box? If you mean that, I don't think that is needed. Just get rid of the blue fog, that should be enough. The fog could be removed with the evolution of some sort of primitive sense. Well, unicellular would still have that chemical thing to 'see' around them a bit, but some sort of sense that makes use of the variety of cells in a multi-cellular organism would be more effective, and so clear the fog a bit.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sun Dec 26, 2010 1:01 pm

Yeah, but how will the player know he can use the 3D cam now? Thats why I proposed the hint.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Sun Dec 26, 2010 8:40 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Yeah, but how will the player know he can use the 3D cam now? Thats why I proposed the hint.

Hints could feel too intrusive into the flow of gameplay if they're done wrong. A pop-up box would just feel out of place in the current concept, in my opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Mon Dec 27, 2010 4:20 am

Xenopologist wrote:
Hints could feel too intrusive into the flow of gameplay if they're done wrong. A pop-up box would just feel out of place in the current concept, in my opinion.

I know, but how we can tell the player to use the 3d cam?
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Mon Dec 27, 2010 7:17 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Xenopologist wrote:
Hints could feel too intrusive into the flow of gameplay if they're done wrong. A pop-up box would just feel out of place in the current concept, in my opinion.

I know, but how we can tell the player to use the 3d cam?
I think we should make the transition go through strategy mode. Once you have assimilated enough cells, you shoud be able to use them like individual units, correct?

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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Tue Dec 28, 2010 5:25 pm

~sciocont wrote:
I think we should make the transition go through strategy mode. Once you have assimilated enough cells, you shoud be able to use them like individual units, correct?

What? How could you control individual cells in a multicellular organism by clicking on them? I'm starting to think I'm missing something important...
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Tue Dec 28, 2010 6:07 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
~sciocont wrote:
I think we should make the transition go through strategy mode. Once you have assimilated enough cells, you shoud be able to use them like individual units, correct?

What? How could you control individual cells in a multicellular organism by clicking on them? I'm starting to think I'm missing something important...
Early multicellular orgs are really clumps of individual single-cells working together. I think you should be able to use strategy mode in cell gameplay.

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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:25 am

But that would be quite strange, giving player Strategy mode in early Multicellular, then (practically) removing it in later, only to give it back in Awakening.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Wed Dec 29, 2010 1:47 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
But that would be quite strange, giving player Strategy mode in early Multicellular, then (practically) removing it in later, only to give it back in Awakening.
I think you should be abl to access it ay time multiple members of your species can work together.

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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Wed Dec 29, 2010 3:51 pm

Strategy mode allows to use strategy though, wich normally require high brain capacity. No non-sapient creatures can use strategy, so we shouldn't allow it too.
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PostSubject: Re: From a Colony of Cells to an Organism   Wed Dec 29, 2010 4:47 pm

Commander Keen wrote:
Strategy mode allows to use strategy though, wich normally require high brain capacity. No non-sapient creatures can use strategy, so we shouldn't allow it too.
Plenty of creatures use strategy
-falcons
-whales
-sharks
-praying mantis

And you're a human being, meaning you can use strategy whenever you like.

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