Organ Design

That's what we refer to as a mutation.

Well, I'm kind of leaving the subject of brains to talk about the jaw(s) Will be only be able to change the basic jaw size, or can we upgrade various parts. For instance, the jaw angle size is a major factor in the strength of a jaw, and is usually larger for herbivores. Will these basic parts be editable, or will decisions in diet change this?

It appears while I was gone for  a week, this topic lost its activeness.
Where were we?
Oh yes, the brain.

Holomanga wrote:

untrustedlife wrote:

Aiosian_Doctor_Xenox wrote:

brain size doesn't really mean much. It's the density and capacity that it has that really matters, heck, there are animals out there with brains the size of dinner plates that show next to no intelligence. .3.

Or, look to the skies, parrots, crows, ravens, etc. are really quite intelligent, and their brains are around the size of our thumb. .3.

How will we limit the size then, once cannot just say *I WANT A GIANT BRAIN* then they give themselves one, it has to be mutated somehow.Otherwise everyone would just make there brain as huge as possible in order to get the sense benefits. (in the game)

Brains consume massive amounts of resources. If one says *I WANT A GIANT BRAIN*, then they will find their creature weaker (due to energy going to the brain) and quicker to starve. A large brained animal will not live very long unless there's a good reason for it to have a large brain.

I still think it should be mutated somehow. The sense benefits would help in the situation where resources are slim, they will be able to find them better. It has to be mutated. It is the only way to do it in a balanced way.

EnergyKnife wrote:

Well, I'm kind of leaving the subject of brains to talk about the jaw(s) Will be only be able to change the basic jaw size, or can we upgrade various parts. For instance, the jaw angle size is a major factor in the strength of a jaw, and is usually larger for herbivores. Will these basic parts be editable, or will decisions in diet change this?

We will be able to upgrade them. Diet changes would be  a factor, as it will then be covered by evolution.
You will most likely be able to edit them as-well (however probably not for power (which would be covered by upgrades)

My Idea wrote:

Sharp Proboscis
System: Mouth
Description: Tall, bar shaped and hollow. Has smal hollow spike on top connecting to other hollow parts inside it.
Use: Sucking fluids (Water, blood,...), filter eating (Plankton,...)
Details: Hollow spike on top is used to suck fluids if they are unacessible without breaking, hollow inside so fluids/filter eated organisms can pass to digestive parts. Organisms with this mouth make sounds similiar to wind instruments.

Stil, i am interested to know what do you think about this. I posted it before, but without any answer.

We should avoid referencing creatures specific to earth, mosquito mouth could be 'Sharp Proboscis'
It is a good idea as-well, I was gone for a week due to things so I need to catch up.
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Guys we need to keep this thread active. Any more ideas?

untrustedlife wrote:

We should avoid referencing creatures specific to earth, mosquito mouth could be 'Sharp Proboscis'
It is a good idea as-well, I was gone for a week due to things so I need to catch up.
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Guys we need to keep this thread active. Any more ideas?

Thanks Untrustedlife.
Heres idea:

Solar Receptors
System: Digestive
Description: Very small receptors on skin of a animal, which consume heat and create food using fluids/minerals/both fluids and minerals (Would go very good with sharp proboscis)
Use: Simple food production
Details: I was inspired for this with discovery that not only plants, but insects also can photosynthese. This part probaly wont be able to produce enough food for larger animals.

Okay, here's something.

Name: Spermaceti Stores/Sac/Gland
Function: Weapon (combined with echolocation)
Description: This is a large store of a viscous liquid that is stored (most likely near echolocation/in the head) that allows a creature to focus the sound waves from their echolocation into focused blasts that can be used to stun prey.
Details: I remembered from a show that sperm whales hunted squid in the dark of the oceanic abyss, and how they had some way of using their sonar as a weapon to stun squid.
Use: most likely only able to stun prey, or rupture internal organs in much smaller animals if powerful enough, and would only work underwater.

Fun Fact: this store also gave sperm whales their name

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

Okay, here's something.

Name: Spermaceti Stores/Sac/Gland
Function: Weapon (combined with echolocation)
Description: This is a large store of a viscous liquid that is stored (most likely near echolocation/in the head) that allows a creature to focus the sound waves from their echolocation into focused blasts that can be used to stun prey.
Details: I remembered from a show that sperm whales hunted squid in the dark of the oceanic abyss, and how they had some way of using their sonar as a weapon to stun squid.
Use: most likely only able to stun prey, or rupture internal organs in much smaller animals if powerful enough, and would only work underwater.

Fun Fact: this store also gave sperm whales their name, guess what early whalers thought this stuff was.

Um, Spermaceti has nothing to do with the sound-waves they use to attack. Spermaceti is used by Sperm whales for buoyancy. If it gets cold, it becomes dense, and heavy, allowing them to dive faster, if it gets warm, it becomes much less dense, and almost lighter than a feather, allowing them to surface quickly.

Their sonar attacking thing, is just due to the size of their melon. .3. Which, IRC, is positively massive.

I was simply going off of a hunch from a memory, can't post a link, so just google or search for sperm whale sonic blast on bing, that's where I found it.


EDIT: you will want the Monterey Bay site

EDIT the 2nd: The spermaceti is in the melon, where it acts like an amplifier for the sound, so we are both right it seems.

Immortal_Dragon wrote:

I was simply going off of a hunch from a memory, can't post a link, so just google or search for sperm whale sonic blast on bing, that's where I found it.


EDIT: you will want the Monterey Bay site

EDIT the 2nd: The spermaceti is in the melon, where it acts like an amplifier for the sound, so we are both right it seems.

Well then, it would seem this stuff is more powerful than we both expected. .3.

Might be useful for early submarine technology; put the stuff in the sonar assembly to amplify it as a weapon, or just get clearer sonar, and it also helps you dive and float. .3.

Eh, nobody reponded so i wanted to ask: What do you think about my idea?

(Copy-pasted)
Solar Receptors
System: Digestive
Description: Very small receptors on skin of a animal, which consume heat and create food using fluids/minerals/both fluids and minerals (Would go very good with sharp proboscis)
Use: Simple food production 
Details: I was inspired for this with discovery that not only plants, but insects also can photosynthese. This part probaly wont be able to produce enough food for larger animals.

Well, it sounds like a cool idea to me, I looked up where that came from and found that was from insects such as aphids and the like. Plus the connections could be done behind the scenes in the Organism Editor once you add it. And efficiency would be a problem that could limit it to the smaller organisms.

Maybe the receptors could be brushed on like fat?

Would any exterior organs that replicate the function of windmills by essentially converting kinetic energy to chemical, be viable?

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Eh, nobody reponded so i wanted to ask: What do you think about my idea?

(Copy-pasted)
Solar Receptors
System: Digestive
Description: Very small receptors on skin of a animal, which consume heat and create food using fluids/minerals/both fluids and minerals (Would go very good with sharp proboscis)
Use: Simple food production 
Details: I was inspired for this with discovery that not only plants, but insects also can photosynthese. This part probaly wont be able to produce enough food for larger animals.

Very good idea and it's not super obvious that it could evolve.
I'm sorry for not responding earlier, I have been very busy.

Anagennesarcus wrote:

Would any exterior organs that replicate the function of windmills by essentially converting kinetic energy to chemical, be viable?

Yes, it wold be viable, but it would be a very unusual thing to evolve, Unless on a very very windy planet, maybe a gas giant?
I however don't think that a 'wind turbine organ' would create very much energy due to the size it would have to be a on a creature. I could be wrong though.. most wind turbines are huge.

Well, solar plants are huge as well, and still all* the energy obtained from living beings comes from solar energy.

Potentially, all kinds of energy can be transformed into any other kind of energy. In practice, it is not as easy. The question would be if living beings could transform kinetic energy into (potential) chemical energy.

*Actually, most, as some very specific cells survive from other sources.

Good point Dani. Evolution has a way of making things very efficient.
So wind turbine organs may be a go then? I'll do some research to see if it could be possible for kinetic energy to be transformed into chemical energy.

edit:
Dani I had a class called Honors Bio, loved it, and I know that there are some very specific (and groups) of bacteria that do get energy in odd ways. One group even uses ammonia and other nitrogen compounds to make energy. I'm sorry if I didn't sound as open as I am.

Untrustedlife, I actually have an instance of a windy planet, on a documentary of if Earth had no Moon, the days would have been only about 8 hours long, and because of the rapid rotation there would have been extremely strong winds or something to that degree. I can't remember the details are a little fuzzy.

On a similar note to organic windmills, I guess sails would be viable too? As in an aquatic creature that floats in the ocean that uses its sails to move around, that would be kinda cool, I guess.

To simply voice an opinion, how would the windmill be attached, and if it is attached, what will keep it from breaking, if we're going to go into that?

Heres a idea:

Biolumiscent Sacks
System: ? (I couldnt remember any which would fit)
Description: A part attachable on animal body with cells containing luciferin, which combines with ATP, creating luciferyl adenylate and pyrophosphate. The luciferyl adenylate combines with oxygen to form oxyluciferin and adenosine monophosphate. Light is given off and the oxyluciferin and AMP are released from the enzyme's surface, creating small source of light.
Use: Lighting when is dark, so you see around you, charming the mate.
Details: Resource of light this make are prety small.

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Heres a idea:

Biolumiscent Sacks
System: ? (I couldnt remember any which would fit)
Description: A part attachable on animal body with cells containing luciferin, which combines with ATP, creating luciferyl adenylate and pyrophosphate. The luciferyl adenylate combines with oxygen to form oxyluciferin and adenosine monophosphate. Light is given off and the oxyluciferin and AMP are released from the enzyme's surface, creating small source of light.
Use: Lighting when is dark, so you see around you, charming the mate.
Details: Resource of light this make are prety small.

I like that idea a lot. Good job on finding an organ that could make quite an effect on the game.

Tarpy wrote:

WilliamstheJohn wrote:

Heres a idea:

Biolumiscent Sacks
System: ? (I couldnt remember any which would fit)
Description: A part attachable on animal body with cells containing luciferin, which combines with ATP, creating luciferyl adenylate and pyrophosphate. The luciferyl adenylate combines with oxygen to form oxyluciferin and adenosine monophosphate. Light is given off and the oxyluciferin and AMP are released from the enzyme's surface, creating small source of light.
Use: Lighting when is dark, so you see around you, charming the mate.
Details: Resource of light this make are prety small.

I like that idea a lot. Good job on finding an organ that could make quite an effect on the game.

It would be pretty useful if you are a small animal, beacuse player could actualy see something during night.

I'm back, kids! Keep up the good work, I'll be making a start on classifying and hashing out the details of all this stuff. (Thanks for the Book Lungs especially, I couldn't for the life of me remember what they were called.)

On the topic of the possible windmill: can anyone find a way to do this that wouldn't involve a joint that had to rotate more than 360 degrees? (Protip: since muscles and tendons are connected to bones and joints, their range of motion is usually significantly below 360 degrees of rotation.) If you can find a way to wind power a creature without having an axle on it, I'll bite, despite the fact that I have no idea if a creature should be able to convert kinetic into chemical energy within their body.

Everybody else's stuff looks classifiable or can be absorbed into a current feature.

:cheers: 

The speculative evolution wiki has several pages that may be of interest to this. I'll post them here:

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Offense_and_defense

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Reproduction

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Alternative_biochemistry

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Eyes

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Centaurism

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Speculative_physiology

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Speculative_biomechanics

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Speculative_bioenergetics

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Perception

http://speculativeevolution.wikia.com/wiki/Intelligence

Also, what does anyone think of these ideas:

ORGAN NAME: Backsacks (Based off an old idea from one of my old spec evo projects, might work)
System: Respiratory?
Description: A set of external sacks
Use: They can be used to produce sound, for communication or startling off foes.
Details: Also could possibly be used for breathing, but, is unlikely, probably too fragile.

ORGAN NAME: Airsacs
System: Nervous? Respiratory?
Description: A set of gas filled sacs.
Use: Could be used to lower the weight of an organism? Also could increase respiratory capacity.
Details: